Europe I Love You, Oussama Ammar, Partner at TheFamily


Hello everyone!
Welcome to TheFamily! What are we going to talk about
today? You have to understand something. We are planning to get TheFamily
a big switch to english. We are taking all our content
from French to English, because we want to build
the Pan-European infrastructure and that’s really something!
We are working hard on it. It’s hard, it’s tuff, but we think that the biggest opportunity
for us, as a startup, is not France, London, Berlin
or whatever. It’s to think European.
And to start thinking European, we need to start to be proud
to be in Europe. And what I want to try today is to tell you what you can take
as an advantage of being in Europe. So, just a few things to be very
very clear. The first thing is that this debate
about where is the next Silicon Valley is a bullshit debate. There will not be any other
Silicon Valley. I’m sorry for you, we will always be losers
behind the leaders. That’s how it works in history, that’s how things have always been, and if we become leader in something, it will not be like the Silicon Valley. Because when you are late to a party, the only thing you can do is to do a nice after. It’s not to try leaving the party
when everybody left. So, we will not leave the party
of what we missed. Europe missed the first generation
of internet companies. It’s fine, it’s done. Only our government and policy makers have time to think about
how to create the next Silicon Valley. If you are an entrepreneur and you are working hard, you don’t have time for this kind
of bullshit. The second thing I want to make clear: it’s not a question of Europe
vs Silicon Valley. If you want to build a company
in The Silicon Valley, there is a ton of pros
to do that, there is a ton of cons, and there are many
many reasons down the road to help you do that. But it’s not our job. It’s not like if you were interested in understanding the difference
between Valley and Europe. There is a very simple answer to that: Silicon Valley is in California, Europe is in Europe. Dot. You have to choose where you to live first
before thinking about business. Because if you move only
for business reasons, you will end up very sad. So, if you are in Europe, you have to understand
and play the European game. If you are in the Valley, you have to understand
the Valley game. If you go to New York, you have to understand New York
and play the New York game. You cannot spend all your life living with rules that you think others have. And the last thing I want to say
about that is that you don’t imagine
how misrepresented Silicon Valley is around the world. because no one really knows the Valley
until you go there and most people that go there are not so interested about
telling people outside and how it really is. So, everything we tell you
about the Valley is true but even more
and there are things that are bad and there are things that are good. But all of that is
not a very interesting debate if you are not inside Silicon Valley. So, having said that, I think the good things
we need to think about and talk collectively about is what is our collective unfairness
of being in Europe? And, I want to play a game with you. So I will give you a list of things that we are building as unfair
and that we think they are unfair and a list of things we are doing at TheFamily and that we believe, at TheFamily,
are huge competitive advantages. I love the word “unfair” because you know,
“competitive advantage” is a smart word to say “unfair”. But “unfair” gives you the feeling of
what we are talking about. We are talking about something
that makes life on Earth really better, really for the better. And here it’s about thinking about
what we have in Europe that is unique, that can help you build something
that will win globally. Because we think that if startups
think pan-European they have the opportunity
to build something that can take over the world and be really ambitious
and do something great So, first of all, it’s not just a question
of copying I’m not saying that copying is bad. I think that a lot of entrepreneurs
should copy their business It’s a great way to learn, there’s a thousand of opportunities
in copying what exists in Silicon Valley
and make it happen in Europe. And there is a huge case for that. But, even if it’s a huge case, it is still a very small case So, few things about copying. First, copying always has the limit of the environment
you are copying. You have to always think when something works somewhere, if it’s independent,
or dependent of the place where it has been created, and there are so many things
that you cannot copy and paste, because you don’t have the right infrastructure, you don’t have the right financing, you don’t have the right blah blah blah
I don’t know what, and most people fail at copying because they understand the business as a caricature from the press You know, they don’t do their homework, they don’t make it right. So they see an article on TechCrunch
about a Uber for babysitters and they say “oh, that looks like a very good idea,
let’s do the same thing!”. And actually, the Uber for babysitters in the Valley is already bankrupt. So when you start to copy it, the company is already bankrupt. So, if copying is hype is the press it doesn’t mean it’s a success. The second thing you have to learn about copying is that it’s a really hard job
that needs a lot of very specific skills and one of them is the capacity to adapt to local constraints. Because if you don’t really understand the value chain of the business you are copying, you cannot understand
what will be easy to copy and what will not. For example, we say “Rocket Internet are very bad people because they copy the idea
of great entrepreneurs in the Valley and they are the bad guys
because they make it happen in other countries. But the truth is that most of the businesses they are copying around the world, are impossible businesses for the Valley companies
to launch because Valley companies are build on a very mature infrastructure when the companies they are launching
in other places are not. A good example of that is when they copy an e-commerce website in Indonesia, they have to build the payment infrastructure because there is no payment infrastructure in Indonesia. So, copying the e-commerce website is not just about saying “oh it works
there so let’s make it work here ». No. It’s about building stacks,
full stacks of things that make it possible and that’s why sometimes, copying a business costs much more than launching a business in a mature,
very prominent ecosystem, where everything already works. So, that’s the aspect
we don’t see in copying and that really drives ambition. The third thing about copying is that whoever you are, if you succeed at some point by copying a business, you need at some points to start
to innovate yourself, because think about it. Let’s say that you do a copycat
of a very successful startup in the Valley, and you win. And the company is bankrupt,
and you are successful. Who do you copy now,
for the next iteration of your product? So you see that the copying thing
is always a very temporary thing. It’s not forever because if you win, you’re in a situation
where you have to be your own. So, idea and inspiration are great but be careful before thinking that
because we are in Europe, our goal is to copy. Why copying is not the only way? Because there is a lot of opportunities that don’t exist anywhere else. Because they don’t have the kind of infrastructure
or unfair advantage Europe has. I will give you a very simple example
such as the earlier example. Let’s take Deliveroo. Who does use Deliveroo here? Ok. Deliveroo is a very good example of a company
that needs a very high density in cities. Do you think that you’d launch Deliveroo in Miami? So you order food in a restaurant, the guy picks up a car, drives food in two hours in a half gets to your home and gets back,
and it costs $10. Great business model. Deliveroo is a European company at heart, because they have been launched in a place
where they built a ten-million business on ten square meters. You can build a one hundred million business a year
in London, just in Shoreditch. You just follow Shoreditch and you say
“I’m delivering every restaurant for every worker” and you can build a one hundred million business. You cannot do that in California. You can maybe do that a little bit in Manhattan but still, not very easy, lot of street
food competition, blah blah blah So you see, it’s a very good example of a company
that is build on something very unique, the architecture of our cities, and they took that as an opportunity
to build something incredible. So, one of the first advantage we have,
and I think that’s one of the most invisible one, is that we don’t have borders. You know, we see the United States as a single market, you know, that’s a very common example we give to people we say “Oh, in the United States it’s so easy because everybody speaks English and it’s the same country so it’s a very unified market. And if one day you are lucky enough
to travel in the United States, you will see that there are much more differences
between someone living in Texas and someone living in California, that there will be between an Estonian and a french guys. I can tell you that Europe is much more unified
in terms of culture than the United States are. But what is the difference? Ok, there is the language barrier. Is the language barrier
still something serious? No. Because you have GoogleTranslate. And I’m not kidding, you can launch a business
thanks to GoogleTranslate. Ok, you would talk like a four-year old,
but still, your customer would get it, you’d just need to make very simple
sentences when you reply and you have also such many people that speak
so many languages for very cheap prices. You can set up multiple language teams
in any city of Europe for not such an expensive price
in terms of customer support. And the only thing that makes it hard
is the care with customer support, but if you look, in terms of costs,
and return on investment, and you look at the kind of return on investment you get from launching so many countries that are so obviously not the top priority of any American company, you see that launching in Europe
can be a very strong thing. And there is also something
really strange in Europe. We don’t have borders, we can travel
for very cheap prices and we can go in any city on any day,
in less than four hours. The radius travel in Europe is four hours and everybody acts like “My God, going to Berlin,
I have to plan that two weeks in advance”. Like we can have a lunch tomorrow in Berlin. That’s easy if you have a good meeting in Berlin, you can go and come back at the same price of the TGV in France for two hours. So, actually, it costs more to travel in France than traveling in Europe. Speak about that to the SNCF. So, think about that. Why people are so stuck
in their local barriers? So, few problems. The first problem is that people don’t know others
and the ecosystems are very separated. But they will still be separated
until we all explore them. So, for example, I’m living in London every second week,
for a year and a half and nobody noticed it. And in London, everybody thinks
I’m living in London on full time. And here, everybody thinks
I’m living here on full time because it’s so easy, you can just go and go back,
and I can take both of what makes London great and what makes France great. By the way, over the last one hundred million
raised by our companies, 85,000,000 come from the UK. Does a company need to be
in The UK? No. You just need to take advantage of the fact
that when you have a meeting with an investor, I hate when startups say “Yes, I’m fundraising.
Tell us when you come to Paris next time and we can have a talk”. You’re like “Why? Take the fucking train to London
and tell them you are there. And tell people in Berlin you are there. and tell people in Denmark you are there.
If you are fundraising, expand your horizons.» It’s not a question of fund raising in The UK
or fund raising in Denmark. It’s just about fund raising in Europe. It’s a very easy target. And people don’t do that because they have this mindset
limit where they think that every country is separated. Sometimes, I wonder why Europe is such unfair politically. And you know, we have all big reasons to think
about Europe as unfair, our politicians… But still, everybody acts like Europe is so separated,
so distant, so complicated, so expensive, while it’s so easy and so convenient if you just jump
and do the effort to learn and build network over Europe. I’m not saying it will go fast, I’m just saying if you invest enough
of your time in that, in few years, you will really have a strong European network
and that will be an unfair advantage for all your life. And it’s not about thinking about
who will be the next capital of startup. You know every years, journalists are like
« Does France builds more billion dollar companies than Berlin or London or blah blah blah » Journalists love that. Firstly because they are journalists, and also because they have a lot a free time. So, they can create competition
where there’s no competition. The truth is that right now,
we all suck. Like, ok London is a thriving
startup community but still, compared to the Valley, it’s so small. Ok, France is great, we have TheFamily. Thank you. We have TheFamily, France is great,
we have BlaBlaCar, we have great unicorns, blah blah But still, we suck. Like we literally suck. I mean, what we built at
TheFamily in three years, every time I hear someone
that tells me “that’s an achievement”, I feel pissed off. Because it’s just the beginning. It’s just 3 years. If we did that in 3 years, our responsibility is to do
twenty times more in the next 3 years. And one hundred times more in the next 10 years. That’s how people should act. But we don’t act like that because
we are very prudential. You know, we think small. We are like “yes, it’s good enough for France” or
“it’s good enough for London” or “it’s good enough for Berlin”. And we can compare ourself with ecosystem
that no one cares about. Of course, Berlin can be compared to Paris. But can Berlin be compared to New York? Or can Berlin be compared to Hong Kong? Or can Berlin be compared to, I don’t know,
which thriving million market or emerging market cities? Of course not. It’s just a bunch of hipsters doing
few startups. So, if you lower your level of competition,
your numbers always look good. And you can create artificial competition. But where can we compete if we can say that
London is a great place to get finance, France is a good place to get engineers
and Berlin is a great place to get product designers? And if you think like that, and if you think about the fact
that you can chase talents on your open level, capital on your open level, and build your open company
in multiple languages, you will have the discipline
to market around the world. And you can build decent big competitors
of US companies and you can go around the road. Take a company like Movinga, Movinga is a company that spent
the two first years of its life thinking, I hope it’s not confidential, thinking about launching in the US,
sorry Movinga guys We are not friends anyway. They thought about launching in the US and they started to really take off when they understood that launching in the US was too far, too expensive, too complicated. And launching in Europe was a beginning and building a really decent big business in Europe could take over the world. And that comes down to the fact that
because no one think European, you have so many businesses now
that are so obsessed by the US, so obsessed about the American dream,
so obsessed about everything that makes America great. But actually, you don’t really play the game
because you don’t really live full time there. And they are so obsessed about that that they will launch as a second country
in the United States instead of any other country in Europe and that doesn’t make sense in 80% of the cases. Sometimes it makes sense Sometimes, your biggest market on Earth
is the United States. For example, Algolia. Algolia is a company that does
a search engine SDK in the Cloud that anyone can install in 5 minutes. If you are Algolia CEO and you launch in Germany
as a second country you are lost, like you don’t have any idea
of what you are doing. Because there is no client in Germany, there is no client in France,
there is no client in Italy, because it’s so specific that the only place
where you have 98% of your interested client in the world is Silicon Valley. So if you are Algolia, on Day 1, you say, ok, I’m using a huge unfair advantage:
French engineers because they are cheap, they are my friends, I can hire a lot
and I’m quite exceptional, and I can use that as a strength
to build a US business team. And the US business team would be able to target our most important market
in the world. And if you think about Algolia,
it’s not a question of expending internationally. It’s a question about winning the Valley because winning the Valley in that business is winning the world. But now, let’s say you are Trusk, good example they are listening so. So at Trusk, what they do,
they move things around. You want to move a big couch,
you bought something from IKEA, you want an instant delivery, you press a button
and someone comes. And let’s say you tell yourself “I will launch as a second country
in the US”. Why is it a very bad idea? Because the US
are an independent market by themselves in the logistics business. Logistics in Europe,
logistics in the US, is like quantum physics
in classical physics. They share the word “physics” but that’s it. And everything you learn in Europe, you cannot apply in the US and everything you will do in the US you cannot apply in Europe. And by the way, there are thousands of companies in the US
that are already competing in this market like Lug, that fundraised 17 millions, So what is your opportunity? Your opportunity is
to stay in Europe and think you’re European. And take some many positions, so strong, so fast, that when the US company will come, you can go and compete in the US because you will think that I will say that you sell.
No you never sell, you kill. And you go to the US,
and you launch in the US when they’ll fight hard in Europe. Why do US companies succeed
against the European incumbents? Because each time a US competitor
comes on the market, what people do is that, first, they are local
and not pan-European, so they are weak, and they cannot fight back, because what happens is that
people have so much capital in the US that they expand that capital in Europe too
and spend a lot of money but, you as a European company, instead of going on their national market
and just piss them off, so they scale back and focus on the US market, you just let them kill you in Europe. That’s what happened
with Uber in every local competitor. Why did every local competitors of Uber failed? Because they are local,
they did not scale enough, fast enough in Europe. And you cannot be in a big fight, it’s like going in a street fight and tell people
“yeah, please today keep it easy because I didn’t have breakfast. » People don’t do that in street fights. People in street fights just fight. So, you have to understand that and it comes down to something: If you think about
every single country in Europe as a singularity, they all have pros and cons like friends have thousands of pros and thousands of cons. If you look at UK, Germany, Italy, it will be the case for every country. And we get sucked up by this equilibrium instead of building an infrastructure around the pros. I will give you a very simple example: corporate law in corporate structure. If you are a Silicon Valley startup, and you go to see a lawyer and you come and say
« Hi, I have an idea. I need to incorporate a company what should I do? » The US lawyer will tell you “it’s very easy, choose that standard document
and incorporate in Delaware”. Whether you live in the US, as a startup you will always incorporate
in Delaware. By the way, in France, if you read French press, they will explain you
that it’s for tax reasons. Because taxes in Delaware are cheap. The truth is that in the US,
you pay your taxes where you live. So even if you are incorporating in Delaware
and you live in California, you will pay your taxes in California. So it’s tax neutral. No, the reason is that Delaware
is the best corporate law state. It’s a state that have a passion for
corporate law for two centuries, that specialize judges in the subject that can give an answer on any corporate litigation
in less than two weeks. It’s a huge specialization. And so what happen is that as a Californian entrepreneur, you will not end up living with living with Californian corporate laws that are so weak, so strange and that, by the way, are maybe worse than the French one, to tell you how horrible they are. But no one in California never used it and they did not spend 25 years lobbying to change the Californian law. They say “no, there is something that already works,
let’s use it”. So now let’s think about our case. At TheFamily, we incorporate 80% of our companies in the UK. Why? Because in Europe,
the UK is a top leading corporate law country. It’s not like “that’s how it is », they have a huge tradition
of business in commerce, they have the British empire
and the Common Law, by the way,
it’s a Common Law it’s not civil law so it’s much more flexible, you can give equity much more easily, you can do things that would seem
impossible in French law, and for 10% of the cost
of doing it in France. Incorporating a company
in the UK costs 500 pounds and takes two hours, Two hours! Not two weeks! Like in France, we say “Oh, we are so good, in less than two weeks,
people have their KBIS ». Yeah ok,
that’s compared to two hours. And it matters. It matters that it’s not a problem. It matters that it should be simple. Does it mean that you will pay your tax in UK?
No! Like if you live in France,
you pay your tax in France. Your corporate tax by the way. 100% of your clients are in France and you do everything in France, you do a subsidiary
and you pay your taxes here. I’m not telling you to take your taxes
and optimize, specially in public but, what I’m telling you is that you should take advantage of what
you are offered the best. An other example, I love Skype example for that. For example, Skype had an engineering team
in Estonia They had their legal headquarters
in Luxembourg, they had their corporate headquarters
in London and they had their accountants
in Switzerland. And, I read an interview
of the founder of Skype a long time ago and the journalist was like “Why is your accounting team
in Switzerland?” He said
“because they are very cheap”. Because Switzerland
has so many banks, so many people
specialized in accounting that accounting is a commodity. And you have thousands of accountants per square meter, who by the way
are now in crisis because there are no more banks there, and so they have no other choice than offering their services
for cheap prices. And by the way, they can do an European accounting
from anywhere. And they have people that know how to do French accounting,
UK accounting, blah blah blah. So you see, that’s a very good optimization. Maybe your design team
should be in Italy, maybe your sales team
should be in Barcelona. Look, you want to install in
a very lifestyle city with sales that are paid
by commission in a place where it doesn’t cost too much
to live in Europe. Where do you put it? Barcelona. Top cities. Cheap food, cheap rent, a lot of sun, water… What do you want more for your sales? Sales people are very easy to make happy And you can pay them in a bigger commission
than the local market you will still be cheaper
than having your sales team in the UK. By the way, in Barcelone you have more than 160 nationalities you have people speaking every language
in the world basically living in Barcelona here
for the lifestyle. So you see, thinking European totally change
the paradigme about how you build blocks
around the company, how you scale your company how you live by the fact that it’s not because you started
in France that you need to go through
with every French problem. And, it’s so common in Europe that people are obsessed
about saving their country. You know, we heard that so much
at TheFamily, so many people told us “Oh what you are doing for France
is so beautiful!”. We never did anything
for France. We did something for the 200 companies
coming at TheFamily. And it happened in Paris,
and it happened that we were opened, and it happened that our doors
were not closed to the local community. But if our goal was
to save France, how arrogant would it be. How do you think
someone can come, and start to project
to save France? Only stupid people do that. Because it’s an impossible goal. Saving 200 of the best companies
in France and building an infrastructure
for them, that’s a realistic goal. It’s ambitious, it’s hard,
it’s tuff, we struggle a lot, but at least, we can realistically think that
it can happen. On the opposite side, if your job is to think about
“how can I change my country, how can I save my country?”, it doesn’t make sense. For example, we had so many times this feedback
from people that invest in our company and they invest for the first time
in the UK. And they discover a process
that is so simple. And they say “Oh, that’s so sad,
you build a company in the UK, it means that
we are bad in France”. I say no. It doesn’t mean that. It means that there is a country
that is better and we all should use what they do instead of spending years and years and years
at changing our tradition. Because where is the problem
behind that? The problem is that
in the startup community, people always think
that they are the majority. So, startups represent less than 2%
of the GDP in France. Why would anyone take seriously our community, and change corporate laws
to adapt to specificities that are only
a concern for us, when we represent less than 2%
of the GDP? Ok we represent the future, ok we are hype,
ok we are… All of that doesn’t matter
on the political scale. So, if you want to change
the corporate law in France, incorporate in the UK and when 100% of big successes
will have been incorporated in the UK, politicians will have a problem. Because they will be like “Oh my god, why?
Why are you incorporating in the UK?” Because it’s much better. “And where do you pay your tax?”
In France because that’s the law. “And you are doing that because?” it’s easier, it’s in English. International investors understand it. There is a huge concentration
of money and capital. So if you want to localize
an holding in Europe to get money
for your company, put it in The UK. So, where you live is not
where you operate. You have to be clear about that. You have to think very distributed, you have to think that
everything is possible and you have to think that
you can take advantage of everything you have. And that will help you
think of Europe as a whole and not think Europe
as a separate country. Because I don’t get
why people replicate companies to launch in Europe. What will be the traditional stories? Traditional story is that you have someone successful in France so he wants to launch
in Germany. So he goes in Germany, hires a managing director in Germany, he comes back and he says “Now make it successful”. So you have
the poor guy in Germany he is alone,
without money, he doesn’t really know
what he should do and three months after, he comes back and says “You know, he did not work out
but because we didn’t have enough capital. And so, two choices: You are in a rich company instead of hiring one dude they will hire five dudes but still will not know what to do but at least they will be five and feel less alone. And they will come back a year after
and they’ll say “Yeah, the markets starts
to take off but actually, the problem is that
we need a German product. And you will replicate every function
of your company in Germany because you launched in Germany and he will take you years
to succeed. The good way to expend internationally is that you have two keys. One key is that you need
local operations and local operations
should never be launched by local people. For example, one of the genius move
of Uber is that Uber has a launching team that launches cities
around the world. Cities after cities. because they say it’s much easier
to hire someone to manage than someone to launch. So the guy that launches in Paris will be the same guy
that launches in London, that will be the same guy
that launches in Munich, that will be the same guy
that launches in Tokyo. And they become specialized
at launching. And if you think your company functionally
and not country by country, you can centralize things
for the whole Europe because you can enter
in a decentralizing-centralizing mode. Decentralizing because you will take
the best of every country, and centralizing because maybe
your sales team and your customer support for every country in Europe will be in Barcelona. Maybe your engineering team
for all over Europe will be in Romania. Maybe your legal council
for every country in Europe will be in London. And if you think like that, you will become much more efficient and you will succeed much faster
because you will create a culture. Because what people learn
about Germany, maybe will use it in Denmark or maybe in some other places, and when countries are successful, you can launch local operations. But local operations
are always a second step. And at least,
when you launch local operations, you launch it with people
that comes from the headquarters. and go there. Not the other way around. Because if you hire people locally that need to learn
everything you learnt during five years
to succeed, they will never do that
for cheap salaries, no it’s not worth it,
it’s too complicated. And so, in your mind
you can separate market and team. There are too many confusions
about the fact that your team needs to be
where your market is. That’s not true. Algolia again built
an engineering team in France that is five times bigger
than its sales team in the US. And it created a lot of pain. Understand me well. I’m not saying this model is perfect. It’s not perfect to have
your engineers in France The perfect model would be
to have everyone in one office and everybody would communicate
with everyone and everyone in love with anyone. That would be perfect kibbutz. But because the best startups
are perfect kibbutz but it’s not how it works. like life is not perfect so you have to adapt
around your constraints, you have to optimize, you have to find tricks, you have to find hacks. And having your engineering team
in France and your sales team in the US means you all need to do
an over-investment around communication. For example,
one of the very strange things Algolia did from their start, is that even if they were in Paris, even if the first five employees
were French, they always talked in english
at the office. And I dont’ know how they did that
because I could not but that’s a very good trick! Because they gave the feeling
to everyone that they could welcome anyone
from anywhere. And they overcome the problem
of having a team separated with nine hours as separation. And that’s something that’s important. One of the way to expend in Europe is that to trust the internet,
you need to trust data. I don’t know why people
launch in countries because they decide to launch
in countries. I see that so many times. I see that so many times,
entrepreneurs love to play like they have the feeling
when they expend internationally that’s a bold game
and they put pins on countries you know and they feel like
“Yeah I’m becoming the emperor of the world”. You should not launch somewhere
if you don’t know what you sell first. You know, one of the best way
to launch internationally is to launch everywhere
in every language and just see where it works the best. And when you have the confidence that somewhere it works better
than in an other place, you launch it. There is no other way International expansion is not less data driven
than anything else in your business. It’s as data driven as everything in your business. So let’s data guide the way. Let use data to take decisions, let trust the internet to help you discover
where your early users by markets are. And I want to talk about something. It’s something that I think
we really believe at TheFamily. And it’s really a very precious concept for us, I should write a blogpost about that. It’s what I call the internet nation. So our fairy is that
a new country’s born and that country is invisible
and exists and most of you are members of this country even if you don’t have a passport
of this country. This country is called “the internet nation”. So who are the citizens
of the internet nation? They speak English, they can use anything from anywhere
just because it’s on the internet, there are no boundaries, and they share a global culture that makes them understand things that only people living in the internet nation
understand, specifically cats and memes. So now I know who is member. So, the internet nation goes through
the ages, goes through the nationalities, and you can think it
as a kind of a parasite nation. So you have members of this nation
in every countries and the percentages are bigger
or smaller depending on the countries. Maybe 80% of the Silicon Valley live
in the internet nation or maybe less I don’t know. Maybe 50% of people in this room
feel that they live on the internet nation. But the internet nation is a reality. And sometimes, the first country to launch your product is the internet nation. Sometimes, your product should be launched
in English, not specific to any market, but specific to this target of users that we call the internet nation. And it’s very important to understand
that the internet nation exists. The first time I think about
the internet nation, I’m ashamed but I was at the movie theatre
watchingThe Social Networkand I don’t know if you remember, at the end ofThe Social Network, he’s with the lawyer and the lawyer tells him
that he will pay a billion in fine and anyway he’s billionaire so that will be
like a parking ticket for him and he’s on his computer
and she says “What are you doing?” and he says “I’m looking at
how Facebook is doing in Romania”. And the lawyer says
“They don’t have roads in Romania, but they have Facebook”. So first, they have very good roads
in Romania, so that’s very Hollywood to think that. You know, Americans think that civilization is only in America like French people think that
social security is only in France and everybody else
in all the countries is dying in the street, like yelling So sometimes,
there are some local biais like that. But Romania is a great country, they have a better internet
than in Silicon Valley and they have great things so what are you talking about, ignorant! yeah, I told this kind of thing
in my mind and I was like “But interesting, are people in Romania
really on Facebook now or are they
in the internet nation?” And the truth is that
the first users of Facebook have been people
living in the internet nation. Why? Because the first users of Facebook have been people that have friends
all over the world. Because they studied abroad, they came back and blah blah and that created
a link and a map of people, you know like spies
around the world that would be the first users
everywhere and those users feel much more
connected to the internet than connected
to their own nation. And this is why
I’m talking about the internet nation. It’s because I think
it’s a big cultural thing. I think there is more and more people, even if it’s a small minority, that feel much more confortable online and on the internet in general than in any country
on Earth, and are ready to move
in any country. And I think that something
where startups can build big things are on that idea, the internet nation idea. So, some of the things that we take
as weakness in Europe and we are ashamed
on the global capitalistic market are actually some things that make us a very competitive landscape
for startups. And one very small examples of that is vacation policy. You know, I never remember that but I think in California, the legal vacancy is seven days a year or fourteen days a year and in France,
it’s five weeks a year. Yeah something like that. And you know, a lot of French people
are ashamed of that they’re like
“Oh my god we are lazy blah blah blah”. So, first thing: statistically, we are much more productive
than in California so it doesn’t mean a lot
but it means something, we have very productive people. And Europe is a very productive place
in the world. And one of the reasons of that is that if you look the average vacation policy
in the Valley it’s six weeks a year. If you want to hire someone
very high level in the Silicon Valley, you don’t offer two weeks a year. You offer him six weeks,
eight weeks, ten weeks a year because that’s a way you can compete
against anyone because there is a point where
you cannot increase salaries for ever. You know you can pay early employees
200,000 a year but there is a point
where you cannot so you compete around benefits,
you compete around this kind of things so if the Silicon Valley can survive
with this kind of policy there are even more companies
in the Silicon Valley that created
an unlimited holiday policy. Yeah, lots of people
don’t take it and it creates other biais but still, the idea is that they compete around that so sometimes they feel that everything we told you, you know I think the problem we have
in Europe is that we all have
old fashion entrepreneurs and all their businesses
are based on the idea that their employees are kind of slaves and they need to produce
more value so they can make
more money. All of that is false
in startups. In startups, employees create as much values
as the CEO and they are kind of
partners for the management team. And that’s why,
you know in most startups the ambiance between employees
and the boss is so good. And every startup that acts
like they are in the 19th century, you know capitalists
that manage a factory, end up having no employee at all and no one wants to work
for this kind of jerks. So, I know that lots of investors
always say “Oh yeah but your social regulation,
your social policy are so strong that
it’s not a competitive advantage”. I can always explain factually to them
that it’s actually false and that the Valley is actually
higher in terms of benefits than Europe. And Europe is cheaper because those benefits
are paid collectively and not only by the company. So that’s a huge unfair. An other unfair is that you know, you always have
a bright side to something that
doesn’t work well. A good example of that
is B2B sales. You know, if you are a product
that is launching a B2B offer, I advise you to have
American clients. They are much easier to get, much easier
to get paid by, it works much better. But, there is a down side. The down side is that
because they are easy to get in, they are so easy to get out. It’s a very logical thing. If they are ready to use
new things, they are ready to drop
all things. In Europe, it’s really hard
to get a client You know, because they struggle
to change, they want to,
they are not really sure, they want to change
blah blah blah. But, when you get it, you can do whatever you want, you are very comfortable
for lots of years. So, you see I’m not sure it’s a huge upside. I don’t know if it’s better to have people earlier, easy
and get dropped later or all the other ways around. It’s not clear,
it’s not obvious but you always have an opportunity
if you look at things on the bright side. One of the things
we have in Europe is that we have this very counter-intuitive proposition around the home run and around ambition. You know, lots of people in the US
are very ambitious and people in Europe say “Yeah we are smaller,
we don’t have companies as big, so we should be less ambitious
in what we want to build. Actually, it’s because
we are smaller, it’s because it’s more complicated that you need to be
more ambitious. Because you can see that
as a negative weight that takes you down
and you need to overcome it to jump. And the more the weight is strong, more you need to jump high if you want to survive
and get out of the water, I was imagining water and yeah. Forget it. So, you see the tiger
is in the water like why are you surprised? So, it’s very counter-intuitive we like thinking that small things
are fine. But small things are not fine
in Europe. And so, if I can give you an advice
as an entrepreneur, between doing a shitty project
yourself or joining a very ambitious project
as an employee and you want to build a career
as an entrepreneur, join the very ambitious company
as an employee. Because it will help you to go
much bigger and much faster in your career than staying alone
and doing something small because you feel European
and doing small things is fine. Because what happens is that American competitors always come down and they always put much more money
than anyone else locally. And if you did not build
something big enough, you will always end up crashed. And there are thousands of
Robin Hood opportunities in Europe. Because we are so used
to uncompetitive marker. We are so used
to have monopoly and regulations, and things that
drive customers crazy and customers in Europe are always
big users of disruption like the biggest markets of Airbnb
are in Europe. The biggest markets of Uber,
before India, China, have been in Europe. Europe is a very big opportunity because people are thriving
for this kind of solution. People are really wrong, because if you look
Captain Train for example, Captain Train is such an opportunity because Voyages SNCF
is not a business company. That’s easy as that. You know, twelve engineers can go against
a 800 engineers company just because nothing works. And because there are politics,
because there is history, because there is SNCF. And all of that
is a huge opportunity. Look at our banks. Look at our insurance companies,
look at our food companies, Everything that is in monopoly
can create very high level of customer dissatisfaction. And this is why pessimism
is such an opportunity. Everybody around you,
everybody outside is depressed. And I hate when an entrepreneur says “Oh I don’t feel well in Europe
because everybody is depressed”. And very often I take that
as a sign that you are not
with a real entrepreneur. Real entrepreneurs create
their own bubble, they live in the bubble and
they don’t care that everyone is depressed. And they take that as an opportunity
for less competition, and they take that as an opportunity
to offer something that is really a glass
in the desert. A glass of water in the desert, that’s what European entrepreneurs
can build. Because like look,
you live in the Valley, everyday you have
a fucking guy that pitches you something. Everyday. Like you are going in the street, you know from Mission street
upstairs to downstairs and you have 10 entrepreneurs
that try to grab you yeah that’s how it is and they are in the street. And the truth is that there are
so many innovations by square meters that being different
is hard. Here you do Trusk, and everybody is surprised
like “Wow, it’s possible, I can call you
and you come”. Yes, and you smile,
yes “My God I love you”. “I didn’t know that was possible” and you know,
they are good companies but it was easy. It was easy because
the market is so down. Bring a little bit of care in Europe,
and everybody loves you. Bring a little bit of originality
everybody will be around you. And it will not be like that
forever. you know I hope it will be
like in the Valley in ten years. And that TheFamily build
so many startups in Europe that people will be so pissed off
about startups. You know if one day
people are like “Oh again!?”
like “No, no more efficiency please, I want things broken like before”. That would be a huge success! And that comes down to another advantage
that is very invisible but that European companies
don’t use enough to leverage globally. It’s that doing a company in Europe
right now is like running in the sand. You know, it’s hard,
it’s really difficult but it builds muscles. And if you start running
out of the sand, you will be light
and you will run. and fast like Forrest Gump,
like Forrest Gump! You will run like that guy, because that guy had a lot of trouble
in his childhood, and it builds muscles
thanks to that. And when you know he’s like free of his constraint, he runs really really fast. That’s exactly the story
of European companies. You have to see that as an opportunity to build muscles. You know, right now, everybody speaks about the fact that there is a bubble
in the Valley or there is not a bubble
in the Valley. or blah blah blah. And you have this very smart VC
that writes articles like “Yeah, we realized
-because they speak like that- we realized that you need to have
a profitable company”. Really? “Yeah yeah, you know,
losing money on every holder doesn’t go for long”. Wow guys, yeah great,
great, great. So can we come back
to real things? Of course, you need
a profitable company, of course, you need
capital efficiency, of course, offering
a $10,000 bike as a signing bonus
for every engineer joining you is not sustainable. Like that’s a true quote, you can go on Google and check! “10,000 signing bonus are dead
in the Valley” like an investor is saying that. And you’re like « Why did you offer a bike at $10,000
in the first place?” like “What’s wrong with you?” like “What’s your problem?” and your problem is that you lived for too long time in a place where there was
way too much capital. And we never had
that opportunity so by the way, it’s not because we did not live a bubble that now we will crash. You know, Europe is so funny because you have
all these investors that spend their last ten years
explaining that it was a bubble and so that’s why
they don’t invest and valuations are too high,
it’s crazy and blah blah blah, And now that valuation goes down, they’re like “Yeah I cannot invest,
valuations are going down”. What are you doing actually? You’re like there is nothing
that makes you happy. You should fight around that. When you meet an investor, when you pitch an investor, when you try to fundraise money, you have to explain
this simple fact. In Europe, we never had
another opportunity than being capital efficient. In Europe, we never had
another opportunity than being smart
around our employees. In Europe, we never had
an other opportunity to build things with few things and try to scale it. And that has an operative mode, teaches you a lot of things and that’s why Europe built
a lot of universal companies in the 60s, 70s and 80s. And we got broke
with the internet because we lost the internet mode, we were like “Internet is different,
we don’t really understand it”, the bubble traumatized
so many people in Europe that they said “Internet is dead”. But it’s not because
we lost that as a revolution that now, we cannot build something
as jet lagger you know, it’s not because we are jet lagged
that we cannot go to the party. We can still have fun at the party, we just need to go to the after. So, another argument that
European companies don’t use enough is a lifestyle argument. Who here went to Palo Alto once
in their life? Raise your hand: Ok. So, raise your hand very high because I want that you are witness
of what I will say now. Palo Alto is the ugliest city
on Earth like it looks like you know
a suburbain city of Nowhere land. The restaurants that would be opened late
would stay opened maximum until 9pm. And after 9pm, you will not have
any food left in the city. So, of course people there want
delivery services, of course they want cinema at home, of course they don’t believe
retail will survive because they don’t have
infrastructure. I can tell you a story: I was at a dinner
with Reed Hastings you know the CEO of Netflix, and I was with Henri Seydoux, and you don’t imagine how much
I love that French entrepreneur, Henri Seydoux is the founder
of Parrot and Louboutin. Because everybody knows him
from Parrot, but few people knows him
for Louboutin. And I found at first extraordinary
to create two such different companies, a luxury, legendary shoes company and an electronic consumer that started
by doing audio in cars you know. It’s so funny. And that guy
is one of the best entrepreneurs in France from far, really. He has a very deep mind
and he’s funny. And the first sentence
he told Reed Hastings was “You know Reed,
I don’t like the Valley because you don’t have
any taste. Like you are billionaires
and you live in a house where even, I don’t know, like
an average paid employee in France would not want
as a house. And you know here in Europe, we have mistresses,
we have diamonds, we have art, we have movies, we have actresses,
we have fashion models and you have geeks
and people.” And the guy was like
“Yeah yeah, things like that, it’s kind of sad.” But it’s true. You are on a global competitive market
for talents. You can sell
all of that. You know, we even think about launching a meetup here,
my girlfriend lives in Paris, to attract engineers
from the Valley. I’m sure it will works because lifestyle is something
that people want. They don’t define their lives
only by their work. They also define their life
by their entertainments, by their pleasure, by the fact that
you can walk in any street in Europe, It will look like a museum. That’s a huge competitive advantage. But we don’t use it because we don’t market it well. And we don’t use it
because we don’t make it easy to people. For example, Algolia again, they are so good. They hire very globally but they make it easy because where is the problem? The problem is that our infrastructures
are not welcoming. You know, when you come from abroad, I don’t know if there are
people that come from abroad here, but it’s horrible
to come in France. You go topréfecture, you know, you want to rent
an apartment, I lived in France for ten years and I lived three years
in the Valley, I didn’t have a passport for ten years, I spend the first nine months
of my coming back in France in an hotel room. Nine months because no one wanted to rent me
an apartment. Welcome back in France! You know, and all of that
as a company, you can solve that. For example, Algolia acts
as a guarantor for every employee that tries
to get an apartment. They raised 15 millions so no one is like
“yeah sure you can be a guarantor”. And you have a lot of opportunities
like that. You can hire a lawyer
and send him to thepréfectureinstead of your employees
spending months to try to understand someone
at thepréfecture. You can help for the visa,
you can help for the login, you can help and if you help
with all of that, Paris, London, Rome, Barcelona, they become very attractive places
for ambitious people. Because you can give lifestyle
plus ambition in one single package. But lifestyle argument
is not enough. You need to make them understand
that they are not coming only for the lifestyle. By the way, pay attention to that because sometimes
you attract the worse because they come only
for the lifestyle. But the lifestyle has a signing bonus for very ambitious people. Not enough companies use it
as a leverage. So, remember that. If you have something
to take out of this seminar, it’s to start where you want to live but it’s not where your business
needs to be. You have to separate
your life and your business, you have to optimize
over your business, you have to optimize over your life and you can use your life
as an unfair advantage over your business. But it’s not because
you live in France that you incorporate in France. It’s not because you are born
in Italy, that you build your business
in Italy. It’s just that you have to use it
as a basis, as a strength, where you have
hiring capabilities, where you have things you can use
on a long term. Build your own infrastructure. Use what is around you
to build something that no one else can build. An other example from Algolia, I don’t know why today
it’s the only one that pumps my mind today but sorry. Algolia for example built
an incredible engineering team because they have a huge unfair
in hiring engineers in France. They spent fifteen years as top executive
in a software company in France. If they try to hire an engineer
in the Valley, it will just be next random guy. But if they try to hire
in France, it will be THE guy. Because everybody knows them
in the industry, they have a very good reputation. So you see, Yeah I know, some people love to say
we have the best engineers on Earth, that’s false because there is nowhere such a thing
as the best engineers on Earth. But still, because our engineers in France
are good, as they are good ones in India,
as they are good ones in the US, you should be hiring them
where you have an unfair to get the best. Because even if the engineers
are good in the US, they will have less good engineers and very average engineers because they will not have
the unfair advantage of knowing the market, having
an established network and blah blah blah. The other thing is that
if you think that we are going to a jobless future,
think about that. I think we will be better living
in France than in anywhere else and it’s my theory,
maybe Europe is a bit in advance. You know we build
all these social infrastructure for future that do not exist yet. But actually, we are genius
and no one notices that so that’s a thing. Every city in Europe
has its fanbase and every city has its strength and every city has its advantage,
you can walk around. Think about that. Expend your horizons. Think strategically. And if you don’t know
the cities and their strengths, just travel a little bit. It will be good for you life,
it will be good for your mood, and you will learn something
and not spend so much time. And at the end,
it’s because Europe is complicated it’s because Europe is so fucked up that Europe is such a great place
to build businesses. But you have to do it
in the European way. If you try to be an American
in Europe, you will end up
being no one. If you understand what is so specific
in Europe and how to build
something great, you can build extraordinary companies. and we have a lot of them
at TheFamily. Thank you. You talked about the fact that
you make your startup register in The UK. To incorporate in The UK. Not all of them but most of them yeah. Because I just don’t know it is it not obligatory
to live in The UK to incorporate there? No. No, so it’s not a corporate law thing, take a lawyer, there are tons
of taxes, implications around that, it’s not easy but very basic concept: you can incorporate wherever you want and you don’t need to live
where you incorporate. But you have two things:
you have the corporate law and you have the taxes. And you have the social structures. So, the easy concept: corporate law.
You can incorporate wherever you want and you can optimize
around that. At TheFamily, we have a policy
to always incorporate in your biggest market. So if in the next ten years,
the biggest market would be The UK, I’m not meaning that it will be
your first market, but where in the first ten years,
we will advise you The UK. If in the next ten years,
the biggest market will be the US, we will incorporate in Delaware, and if in the next years,
the biggest market will be France, we will incorporate you in France. So that’s why for example, WeSlash is incorporated in The UK, that’s why Algolia is incorporated
in Delaware, and that’s why
Agricool is incorporated in France. Because in the Agricool store,
it will be a lot of R&D, they will needcrédit,
impôts, recherches
blah blah blah while WeSlash if they getcrédit,
impôts, recherches
is because they are liars. So it’s better to put them in a structure where they cannot take it. So you see, it’s really a question of
where your market is. So incorporation is very easy. After you have the tax problem. So the tax problem is that anyway in first place,
you don’t pay taxes. And when you pay taxes, you have lots of considerations about what we call
pricing transfer policy. You need to take
a very specialized lawyer around that, it’s not easy,
it’s a pain, and you need multiple
tax controls to come up to a negotiation
with tax authorities. So I know it can seem strange
for people but you have to understand
that people negotiate the taxes. It’s not like,
don’t think tax is a law, it’s very clear. You have a negotiation
around your tax and the more your company
is successful, the more you have leverage
in this negotiation. That’s why we talk about
Google and blah blah blah, that doesn’t pay its taxes
blah blah blah. Don’t think Google
is doing anything illegal, It’s just that Google
has a lot of lawyers that can spend lots of hours
negotiating with tax authorities and tax authorities feel
a little bit lost so they fight back
and they come back and so it’s complicated. And you have a last aspect,
it’s a social aspect, it’s your personal life
as a person as an entrepreneur, where do you pay your tax
on the money you get? And that is very easy:
you pay your tax where you live. You live in France,
you pay a social security and your personal taxes in France. You live in UK,
you pay in the UK. You live in Belgium,
you pay in Belgium. So that’s the three aspects and all of them can be independent. You can incorporate in the UK, pay your corporate tax in Belgium
because you have operations in Belgium and pay your social in France
because there’s someone living in France doing it. You see, the three
can be in the same place but the three can be
totally separated. And, do you think there’s also
an advantage from a geographic point of view when Europe is much closer to
you know the Russian borders or the Asian borders or Africa
or other side? Or does it really matter? I’m not sure. Ok it’s true but I don’t know
if the effect is so big because I’m always surprised when people talk about
geographic advantage as something real. In a world where it doesn’t make
so much difference to travel twelve hours
or eight hours. You know, it’s not a big deal, you know, anyway, when you are
in first class, you sleep. so that’s what people say
when they travel a lot. So I don’t know. One of the things I’ve learnt
is that Americans are really really bad
at international expansion. I know it sounds counter-intuitive
because they are the only country that succeed
at international expansion but they succeed because
they are ready to spend whatever it costs. And they spend so much
in dumb things. You know, for example if anyone can launch in a country
for five millions, they will be ready to spend
fifty millions to get it and it will stupid because they could save
forty-five millions but they don’t care because they prefer to spend time
to raise money instead of spending time
to understand the country. You know that’s an arbitrage
that they do. One of the things is that,
the problem is that Europeans are not better
at internationalization. So like you can say, like you see it
as an advantage but you will not be better
and you will not have the capital so you will not then. But if you understand that
they are not as good as you think, you can work out
at being good because being good
at international expansion is being good at
feeling locally, something that anyone
can learn, it’s just that you need
to live there, you need to spend time,
you need to be very open-minded, you need not be surprised
by anything you see. You know, you have
two kinds of travelers: you have travelers
that spend their time understanding what they see abroad and you have all the travelers
that spend the vast majority of their time
trying to understand why it’s different and why it doesn’t work
like it works where they are. And you can see that
traveling with people in ten minutes. So good entrepreneurs
are in the first case, they take everything
as taken and they just, you know,
apply and execute. So, if you don’t do it that way,
international expansion is horrible. And I’m not talking about the kind that tries to change
the country in its way it doesn’t make sense. I give a chocolate
for the last question. Ah yeah, it works! -Should I understand that
if you have something some ambitious let’s say
pan-European or worldwide project, you must incorporate in England
rather than in France? -No, so again,
the question will be: where is your biggest market? You can have something, look Agricool. I don’t know if you know Agricool. They do strawberries in containers. Their biggest market is France, from far. Like even if they launch in every country
around the world, France will be the place where
they will have their R&D France will be where they will have
a love relation with customers, France is where we take food
so seriously that making a food company worldwide
can start from France. So it’s not a question of
worldwide ambition, it’s a question of where is
your first big changing step. If you look WeSlash,
WeSlash do temporary work, WeSlash biggest market in Europe
is UK. So even if they launch in France first, they need to incorporate in the UK
because that’s where will be the end game. That’s where they will set up
their headquarters, that’s where they can
hire people that understand
what they do, that’s where they build
something extraordinary. So it depends much more on
where your biggest natural market, in intensity of market, is than on your ambition because after, from anywhere,
you can scale everywhere. So it’s not an unfair advantage. If the business is
a purely internet business, so the only So if you are an internet nation, the best place to incorporate,
if you are really an internet nation and you have people
distributed everywhere, London would be the best place. -Ok. -And when it comes to
a rising fence, Yeah, London is much better
than anywhere in Europe. -Ok, I think that
you answer my question. Thanks. -Hop! A promise is a promise. So, the last question,
I don’t have chocolate anymore but… -And, you said before that
if we copy an American startup, we need to learn about its value chain but if you go on the web
even on Quora or I can use it, It’s not an easy way
to find good information. -That’s the worse way
to get information. -So do you have any advice
about that to get information? -Yeah, do the homework,
call them, go to a job interview… The best way to get informations
about a company you want to copy is to have a rabbit! The best way to copy a company
is to go to a job interview and do the process
and learn everything and ask thousands of questions. Just apply for a job and they will answer
every question you have. because they want to hire you. That’s the best way. If you are not good enough
to get the job interview, tell them you are a journalist
and you write an article. That’s the second best way
to have informations. But do your fucking homework like I don’t know why people you know, the internet just represent
the story telling of the company. Like think about yourself, you have a journalist,
do you tell him about your struggles, about things going bad,
blah blah blah? No, you just tell him
how good you are, how it’s great, blah blah blah. So people after they copy,
it’s so funny, You know, I lived that situation
of being in the board of a company in the US, and having discussion in the board
of directors, about why a specific feature
is not working, and why it’s horrible
and what is the biggest mistake they ever did, and it’s coming back to Europe
for holidays and noticing that
the European copy cat took one year to copy
the feature. There he was like “Oh my god,
why would they do that?” and yeah so
it’s hard to copy. -I went in the US
and Europe and I’ve noticed from my perspective,
maybe everyone else, someone, can tell me
what their feeling is. I’d like to make it
interactive, I think people in Europe
are much more willing to use technology
in something new than people in the US,
they are more afraid. In the US, they are more -No here! -Oh in Europe? That’s false. -Well from my experience -Yeah I know, but your experience
is wrong. -It’s my experience. -No but I know, but I will tell you
why your experience is wrong. Are you American? -I’m American
and Swiss. Ok, so that’s a very common cultural biais when an American looks at
the European market because what he’ll look at
is the feedback of the people. People in Europe are much less willing
to give good feedbacks about anything
than an American one. But if you look at adoption rates,
of any technology, Europe is always going faster
than the US because in the US,
you go and see someone and you show him your technology
and he will tell you “This is awesome!” like “my god that’s marvelous!”, “oh my fucking crazy God” and after they will switch
to the other technology and say the same thing
and they will not use it. And you will never get
any feedback. In Europe, 99% of people
would tell you “Yeah, what’s it innovative?” and the problem is that entrepreneurs take that as a feedback
like “oh they are not interested” but the truth is that
because they say that, you can build something faster
and you can make it and if they adopt,
it will go much faster than in the US. And that’s why Airbnb reaches
a million users faster in France than in California. That’s why Uber reaches a growth of cars
here in France faster than in San Francisco, in growth rate,
not in absolute numbers because you’re still growing. And it’s true for lots of technologies like the first buyer
of Japanese technologies in the world is Europe. But again, it’s not easy. So there is this confusion
between feedback and adoption. Feedback is much more horrible
in Europe, adoption is much faster but only fewer companies
get the illusion of adoption. And by the way, that’s why
so many American companies get user things like that. That kind of thing
doesn’t happen often in Europe because in the first place, it will not do
things like that if people have not the feeling
that they will do it for ten years. Thank you.

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