Race and Ethnicity: Politics of Immigration in the European Union

Race and Ethnicity: Politics of Immigration in the European Union


>>NO?>>GOOD AFTERNOON, EVERYONE.
>>(scattered response).>>THANK YOU. THIS IS A RESPONSIVE CROWD.
(audience laughing) MY NAME’S MIKE LIGHT. I TEACH U.S. HISTORY HERE
AT GRAND RAPIDS COMMUNITY COLLEGE AND I’M THE CHAIR
OF THE SOCIAL SCIENCE DEPARTMENT, AND I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR TAKING
SOME TIME OUT OF YOUR BUSY SCHEDULES TO ATTEND WHAT
IS THE FINAL DAY OF OUR DEPARTMENT’S
RACE AND ETHNICITY CONFERENCE. TODAY, I HAVE THE PLEASURE
OF INTRODUCING A COLLEAGUE OF MINE,
PROFESSOR VURUSIC. UH, GORDAN HAS AN…
EXTENSIVE BACKGROUND, INCLUDING
MULTIPLE DEGREES, SO THIS MIGHT
TAKE A LITTLE WHILE. SO, I’M GONNA READ
YOU THIS, JUST SO YOU HAVE A SENSE
OF WHERE HE’S COMING FROM. HE HAS A MASTER’S
IN INTERNATIONAL POLITICS FROM THE CENTRAL EUROPEAN UNIVERSITY
IN BUDAPEST, A MASTER’S IN INTERNATIONAL ECONOMICS
FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF AMSTERDAM, A MASTER’S IN POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY
FROM BOWLING GREEN UNIVERSITY, AND HE ALSO CONDUCTED SOME
PhD WORK AT INDIANA UNIVERSITY FOCUSED ON POLITICAL SCIENCE. THIS IS HIS THIRD YEAR
AT GRCC, SO LET’S PLEASE GIVE PROFESSOR VURUSIC
A WARM WELCOME. (applause) I’LL JUST SAY I THINK, PROBABLY,
THERE’S GONNA BE SOME TIME FOR QUESTIONS, WHETHER HE ALLOWS IT, YOU KNOW,
DURING HIS TALK OR AT THE END. I’M GONNA HAVE A MICROPHONE AND
I’LL BE WALKING AROUND THE ROOM WITH IT. IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION
OR A COMMENT, PLEASE RAISE YOUR HAND AND
I’LL BRING THE MICROPHONE TO YOU, SO WE CAN HEAR IT
ON FILM, OKAY? NOT TO PUT ANY EXTRA
PRESSURE ON YOU. IT’LL BE OKAY, OKAY? YOU CAN USE
THE MICROPHONE. GORDAN?>>ALL RIGHT, I WISH EVERYBODY
A VERY GOOD AFTERNOON. I THINK MIKE DIDN’T MENTION,
SO I’M ORIGINALLY FROM CROATIA, THEREFORE
THE STRANGE ACCENT. CROATIA IS A SMALL COUNTRY IN EUROPE–
AROUND 4 MILLION PEOPLE. BUT, UH, CROATIA IS HOPING
TO GET INTO EUROPEAN UNION ON THE 1st OF JULY, 2013. SO, BY DEFAULT, I’M CLAIMING EXPERTISE
IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, ALTHOUGH MY COUNTRY’S…
(all laughing) MY COUNTRY’S NOT IN
THE EUROPEAN UNION YET. UM, I ENTITLED
THIS PRESENTATION, “EUROPE– WALLS, GATES,
AND FORTRESSES,” UM… BECAUSE I WOULD ARGUE,
AT THE VERY BEGINNING, THAT THE POLITICS
OF IMMIGRATION– NOT ONLY IN EUROPE BUT
ALL AROUND THE WORLD– IS GOING TO BE PROBABLY
THE MOST CONTENTIOUS POLITICAL ISSUE OF THE 21st CENTURY. WHY IS THAT? BECAUSE, UM… MANY COUNTRIES ARE, BASICALLY,
SEEING A SURGE IN IMMIGRATION… FROM THE PLACES THAT DO NOT
SHARE THE ORIGINAL CULTURE– UM, PEOPLE WHO ARE COMING
TO WESTERN COUNTRIES USUALLY DO NOT SHARE
THEIR HABITS, THEIR RELIGION. THEY DO NOT SHARE THE… PERHAPS, VALUES–
CERTAIN VALUES– OF THE LOCAL POPULATION. ON THE OTHER HAND,
WESTERN COUNTRIES ESPE– I’M TALKING MOSTLY
ABOUT EUROPEAN COUNTRIES. MANY EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE UNDER
VERY STRONG FINANCIAL STRAIN, AS WE SAW IN GREECE,
RIGHT? GREECE IS COLLAPSING FINANCIALLY…
(chuckling) I MEAN, GREECE HAS SO MANY PEOPLE WHO
WORK FOR THE GOVERNMENT, BASICALLY. SO, IF YOU ARE A MEDICAL DOCTOR,
YOU ARE A GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE, RIGHT? IF YOU ARE A COLLEGE PROFESSOR, YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY
GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEE, RIGHT?
(laughing) UNLESS YOU TEACH AT VERY FEW
PRIVATE UNIVERSITIES IN GREECE. SO, SIMPLY, THE COUNTRY OF GREECE
AND MANY OTHER COUNTRIES IN EUROPE– ITALY, PORTUGAL, SPAIN,
EVEN PARTIALLY FRANCE– ARE NOT CAPABLE OF SUSTAINING
THAT MANY PEOPLE ON THE PAYROLL. ANOTHER CAUSE OF FINANCIAL
COLLAPSE OF EUROPE AND IMMIGRATION
AS A BIG POLITICAL CHALLENGE, IS THE FACT THAT WEST,
THE UNITED STATES AND EUROPE, ARE NOT ECONOMICALLY ALONE
IN THE WORLD ANYMORE, RIGHT? THERE’S COMPETITION
FROM OTHERS. FAREED ZAKARIA,
A POLITICAL SCIENTIST WHO ALSO HAS A PRETTY
GOOD PROGRAM ON C.N.N., HE CALLS IT
“THE RISE OF THE REST.” SO, THE REST OF THE WORLD
IS RISING, RIGHT, IN TERMS OF HAVING MORE
AND MORE ECONOMIC POWER– MUCH MORE THAN BEFORE. IN POLITICAL ECONOMY, WE HAVE CREATED AN ACRONYM CALLED
“B.R.I.C.” COUNTRIES– B-R-I-C. THAT STANDS FOR
“BRAZIL, RUSSIA, INDIA, AND CHINA.” FOUR VERY LARGE COUNTRIES
THAT ARE BASICALLY… CHALLENGING
WESTERN ECONOMIES, ESPECIALLY WESTERN EUROPEAN
ECONOMIES. AND SO, THE EUROPE–
THE WEST, RIGHT, IS NOT ALONE IN TERMS
OF ECONOMIC POWER. THERE’S MUCH HIGHER LEVEL
OF COMPETITION. PART OF THIS COMPETITION
IN LABOR– I MEAN, THE AVERAGE
CHINESE FACTORY WORKER EARNS AROUND
$2.22 PER HOUR. $2.25 PER HOUR. THAT’S 100 PERCENT INCREASE
FROM FIVE YEARS AGO. 100 PERCENT INCREASE THAT IS,
RIGHT? PART OF THE COMPETITION THAT
IS COMING FROM THESE PLACES IS ALSO INDUSTRIAL STRUCTURE,
RIGHT? IT’S NOT– WESTERN COUNTRIES
ARE NOT ONLY MOVING THEIR PRODUCTION OF… THE THINGS THEY SELL ONLY
BECAUSE OF THE CHEAP LABOR. THEY’RE ALSO MOVING IT
BECAUSE… IT IS EASIER TO INNOVATE
WHILE PRODUCING, IN CHINA FOR EXAMPLE,
RIGHT? CHINESE FACTORIES
ARE SO PLACED SO THAT IF YOU ARE PRODUCING
AN IPHONE IN CHINA– PRODUCING AN IPHONE
IN UNITED STATES WOULD COST BETWEEN $10 AND $50 PER UNIT
MORE THAN IN CHINA. BUT THAT WOULDN’T CUT
SO MUCH THE PROFIT OF APPLE, BUT APPLE IS SAYING,
“WELL, BUT THERE IS ANOTHER THING.” SO, THERE’S ANOTHER THING
IN THE SENSE THAT IF THEY WANT TO CHANGE
SOMETHING ON THE IPHONE WHILE THE IPHONE
IS BEING MADE, RIGHT? THEY CAN JUST WALK
ACROSS THE STREET ALMOST AND ASK THAT FACTORY
TO CHANGE THAT, RIGHT? HERE, IF YOU MADE IPHONE
IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU WOULD HAVE TO CALL
A FACTORY IN WYOMING… (laughing) TO CHANGE THAT, AND THAT
WOULD TAKE TWO WEEKS, RIGHT? SO, THE WORLD HAS BECOME
MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE, RIGHT, AND BECAUSE OF THE WORLD HAS
BECOME MUCH MORE COMPETITIVE, AND BECAUSE THE BORDERS,
TO A CERTAIN EXTENT, HAVE BECOME
MORE OPEN, RIGHT? WE ARE SEEING IMMIGRATION
AS ONE OF THE BIGGEST CHALLENGES. PROBABLY THE BIGGEST CHALLENGE
OF POLITICS IN THE 21st CENTURY. ANOTHER CHALLENGE
THAT EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE FACING– AND NOT ONLY EUROPEAN–
BUT WESTERN COUNTRIES ARE FACING IS THE CHALLENGE OF PEOPLE
LIVING LONGER LIVES, RIGHT? SO, BECAUSE OF THE ADVANCES
OF MEDICINE, RIGHT,
PEOPLE LIVE LONGER LIVES. SO, IF YOU LIVE IN A EUROPEAN COUNTRY
THAT HAS A TRADITIONAL PENSION SYSTEM, WHICH IS BASICALLY TELLING YOU
THAT YOU ARE ENTITLED TO A PENSION FROM
THE GOVERNMENT, RIGHT– IN EUROPE, THE PENSION IS COMING
FROM THE GOVERNMENT, RIGHT? YOU HAVE TO PAY– THE GOVERNMENT
HAS TO PAY THAT PENSION FOR A MUCH LONGER TIME
THAN 30, 40 YEARS AGO, RIGHT? ANOTHER PROBLEM
IN EUROPE… IS, UH, BASICALLY THE FACT THAT
EUROPEANS DO NOT MAKE MANY BABIES. THEY ARE– SOME OF MY FRIENDS
IN GERMANY ARE TELLING ME, “WHY IS IT THAT
WE MAKE BABIES? “WHY WOULD WE BORN CHILDREN
TO SUCH A BAD WORLD?” (chuckling)
RIGHT? SO, THEY ARE NOT
MAKING MANY BABIES, SO THE MANY DEVELOPED
COUNTRIES IN EUROPE– WELL, MOST OF THE COUNTRIES
IN EUROPE ARE DEVELOPED– SO MANY WESTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
ARE HAVING NEGATIVE GROWTH RATE, WHICH MEANS… UH…
NEGATIVE BIRTH RATES, WHICH MEANS MORE PEOPLE DIED
THAN WERE BORN EVERY YEAR, RIGHT? SO, UNITED NATIONS
DEMOGRAPHIC COUNCIL IS PREDICTING THAT IF EVERYTHING
REMAINS THE SAME, IN 50 YEARS, GERMANY WILL
LOSE HALF OF ITS POPULATION. GERMANY HAS AROUND
88 MILLION PEOPLE. IMAGINE ALL THESE NICE BEER
RESTAURANTS IN GERMANY EMPTY. (laughing)
OR ITALY! ITALY IS ALMOST
IN THE SAME POSITION. ITALY IS LOSING
POPULATION MUCH FASTER THAN
IT IS GAINING, RIGHT? SO, ITALY ALSO WILL LOSE– IN 50 YEARS,
IF EVERYTHING REMAINS THE SAME, ITALY IS GOING TO LOSE ALMOST
40 PERCENT OF THE POPULATION. I MEAN, THAT’S A HUGE NUMBER–
40 PERCENT. ITALY HAS AROUND
55 MILLION PEOPLE, RIGHT? IF YOU LOSE 40 PERCENT,
THAT’S 22 MILLION PEOPLE, RIGHT? IN 50 YEARS– 50 YEARS IS NOTHING!
(laughing) FIFTY YEARS IS NOTHING,
REALLY. IMAGINE ALL THIS BEAUTIFUL PALACES
AND WALLS AND SQUARES AND GELATERIAS
AND RISTORANTES, RIGHT? ALL EMPTY, RIGHT? WHO WOULD COME?
(laughing) SO… EUROPE IS IN NEED
OF IMMIGRATION. WE NEED PEOPLE!
(laughing) BECAUSE IF YOU DON’T HAVE PEOPLE,
YOU DON’T MAKE ANYTHING, RIGHT? THE MORE PEOPLE YOU HAVE,
THE MORE LIKELY YOU ARE TO HAVE THE GROWTH IN YOUR GROSS
DOMESTIC PRODUCT, RIGHT? SO, EUROPE NEEDS PEOPLE. EUROPE NEEDS
IMMIGRANTS. EUROPE NEEDS PEOPLE TO COME
FROM OUTSIDE OF EUROPE, RIGHT? BECAUSE PEOPLE FROM DEVELOPING COUNTRIES
ARE MORE LIKELY TO PRODUCE BABIES. (laughing)
RIGHT? THAN A BUNCH OF STIFF EUROPEANS, RIGHT?
(audience laughing) SO– BUT ON THE ONE HAND,
WE NEED PEOPLE FROM THE OUTSIDE, BUT ON THE OTHER HAND,
EUROPE IS AFRAID OF THEM, RIGHT? EUROPE IS SCARED. AND THEY’RE SCARED
FOR A NUMBER OF REASONS. I THINK ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT
REASONS THAT THEY ARE SCARED, WELL,
IS ECONOMIC REASONS. EUROPE HAS–
EUROPE USED TO HAVE, AT LEAST, A VERY CUSHY WELFARE STATE…
RIGHT? SO, I REMEMBER WHEN I LIVED
IN NETHERLANDS IN THE MID-’90s, WHEN I WAS DOING ONE OF MY DEGREES OR…
(laughing) THE GOVERNMENT OF THE NETHERLANDS
WOULD FINANCE YOUR STUDY BY THE TIME
YOU ARE 27. THEY WOULD JUST
GIVE YOU MONEY TO STUDY. NOT ONLY WOULD THEY
GIVE YOU MONEY TO STUDY, BUT THEY WOULD ALSO GIVE YOU
A STIPEND– A MONTHLY STIPEND– TO LIVE ON,
UNTIL THE AGE OF 27. BETWEEN 18 AND 27. IN SWEDEN, IF YOU HAVE THREE CHILDREN,
YOU DON’T HAVE TO WORK, BECAUSE THE SWEDISH GOVERNMENT
IS PAYING YOU TO RAISE CHILDREN. (laughing)
THERE IS NOT ENOUGH! THEY’RE NOT ENOUGH, SO YOU GET
A SALARY FROM THE GOVERNMENT UNTIL THE CHILDREN
ARE 18, RIGHT? SO, THIS IS– EUROPEANS ARE AFRAID
THAT INFLUX OF IMMIGRANTS WILL THREATEN THESE
WELFARE POLICIES, RIGHT? THERE WILL NOT BE ENOUGH MONEY
TO GO AROUND. BUT ALSO A VERY IMPORTANT REASON
EUROPE IS AFRAID OF IMMIGRANTS… FROM OUTSIDE EUROPE, RIGHT?
(laughing) YOU’RE NOT AFRAID OF BRITS
COMING TO OUR COUNTRY. WE ARE NOT AFRAID OF PEOPLE
WHO LOOK AND THINK ALIKE US, RIGHT? BUT WE ARE AFRAID–
OR EUROPEANS ARE AFRAID OF PEOPLE WHO ARE OF DIFFERENT RELIGION
AND DIFFERENT SKIN COLORS. CULTURALLY,
THEY ARE SAYING, “THESE PEOPLE DO NOT SHARE
OUR VALUES.” HOWEVER, THIS IS ALSO,
AT THE SAME TIME, INTENTIONED WITH
THE STRONG, EUROPEAN, LIBERAL PRINCIPLES,
RIGHT? PROBABLY THE FIRST DEMOCRATIC
REVOLUTION IN THE WORLD… WELL, MAYBE THE SECOND ONE,
AFTER THE AMERICAN ONE. UH, FRENCH BOURGEOISIE REVOLUTION,
1789… “FRATERNITE, EGALITE, LIBERTE,”
RIGHT? BROTHERHOOD, EQUALITY,
FREEDOM, RIGHT? THESE ARE THE PRINCIPLES ON WHICH
THE WESTERN SET OF VALUES– ALSO IN IMMIGRATION–
ARE FOUNDED. I MEAN, THE UNITED STATES
IS NOT ONLY ACCEPTING IMMIGRANTS BECAUSE… IT NEEDS IMMIGRANTS FOR
ECONOMIC REASONS, RIGHT? THE UNITED STATES
ACCEPTS IMMIGRANTS BECAUSE IT ACCEPTS
THESE VALUES, TOO, RIGHT? FRANCE ACCEPTS IMMIGRANTS
BECAUSE IT HAS THIS VALUE, RIGHT? I MEAN, THE WEST
IS BASED AS, UH… AS, UM…
AS AN IDEA. THE IDEA OF THE WEST IS BASED ON THIS IDEA
OF LIBERAL PRINCIPLES, RIGHT? WHEN I TALK
ABOUT “LIBERAL,” I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT
LIBERAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES. I’M TALKING ABOUT CLASSICAL
POLITICAL LIBERALISM, RIGHT, IN WHICH WE ARE ALL EQUAL,
WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS, RIGHT? AND WE ALL HAVE FREEDOM FROM
THE BAD INTRUSION OF THE GOVERNMENT… RIGHT? THAT’S WHAT IMMANUEL KANT WAS
WRITING ABOUT WHEN HE WROTE ABOUT… LIBERALISM, RIGHT? SO, WE HAVE
THIS TENSION. ON THE ONE HAND,
EUROPE NEEDS IMMIGRANTS… FOR ECONOMIC REASONS,
PRIMARILY, RIGHT? EUROPE SORT OF ABSTRACTLY WANTS
IMMIGRANTS FOR IDEOLOGICAL REASONS, BECAUSE OF THESE LIBERAL
PRINCIPLES, RIGHT? BUT ON THE OTHER HAND, EUROPE IS AFRAID
OF IMMIGRANTS, RIGHT? AFRAID OF IMMIGRANTS
BECAUSE OF, UM… ECONOMIC AND CULTURAL
REASONS, RIGHT? SO, HOW DO WE RECONCILE
THIS TENSION? THAT IS, HOW DO WE RECONCILE THE TENSION
BETWEEN NEEDING IMMIGRANTS AND BEING AFRAID OF THEM,
RIGHT? (laughing)
“WHAT DO WE DO?” RIGHT? WHAT DO WE DO IN ORDER
TO RECONCILE THAT? I WOULD SAY IDEOLOGICAL ASPECT
OF RECONCILING THAT TENSION IS WHAT THEY CALL
“THE GOSPEL OF GLOBALIZATION,” RIGHT? GLOBALIZATION IS SORT OF, UM…
I DON’T KNOW. THERE ARE, LIKE,
AT LEAST A THOUSAND… DEFINITION OF
“GLOBALIZATION.” DOES ANYBODY HAVE A DEFINITION
OF “GLOBALIZATION”? YES?
>>THE PROCESS, ER, UM– IT’S LIKE THE PROCESS
WHERE, UM… LIKE EVERYONE’S ECONOMIC SYSTEMS
AND OPERATION HAS BECOME AN EQUAL
AND THE SAME? IT’S NEVER-ENDING, THOUGH. IT’S KIND OF THE PHILOSOPHY–
>>COULD YOU REPEAT THAT? I DIDN’T HEAR IT VERY WELL.
>>IT’S LIKE THE IDEA THAT, UM… EVERYONE’S ECONOMIC AND PRACTICES
IN THEIR COUNTRY BECOMING THE SAME. IT’S NEVER-ENDING,
ACCORDING TO ANTHROPOLOGY.>>MMM-HMM. YEAH, THAT’S ONE OF THE DEFINITIONS
OF GLOBALIZATION. I MEAN, THE DEFINITION
OF “GLOBALIZATION”– WHAT YOU SAID IS, BASICALLY,
THAT COUNTRIES ACCEPT THE BEST PRACTICES HOW TO DO THINGS,
RIGHT? HOW TO DO POLITICS,
HOW TO DO ECONOMICS, HOW TO DO CULTURAL ISSUES,
RIGHT? THEY LOOK AT EACH OTHER
AND SOMEHOW WE ACCEPT THE… THE BEST PRACTICES
OF DOING SO, RIGHT? UM… THAT’S PROBABLY
ONE OF THE POSSIBILITIES. BUT THEN, THE CRITICS
OF GLOBALIZATION ARE SAYING, “WELL, WHO DETERMINES WHAT THE PRACTICES–
WHAT THE BEST PRACTICES ARE?” YOU CAN SAY PRACTIC– IF YOU SAY,
“WHAT IS THE BEST PRACTICES?” IS IT CLAIMING THAT
THE BEST PRACTICE IS THE PRACTICE WITH HIGHEST BENEFIT
AND LOWEST COST, RIGHT? BUT HOW DO WE DEFINE “COST”
AND “BENEFITS,” RIGHT? IT’S ANOTHER CAN OF–
IT’S ANOTHER CAN OF WORMS. DOES ANYBODY ELSE HAVE
A DEFINITION OF “GLOBALIZATION”? YOU’RE SMILING– YOU DO?
(scattered laughing) YES? MARIA?>>IS IT LIKE A WORLDWIDE
TYPE THING? IS THAT WHAT THE “GLOBAL” THAT YOU’RE
LOOKING FOR– LIKE THE WORLDWIDE TYPE–>>YES, YES–
I LIKE THE FRENCH VERSION. IT’S SEXIER. IT’S “MONDIALISATION,” RIGHT?
(audience laughing) IF YOU SAY IT IN FRENCH,
EVERYTHING IS GOOD, RIGHT? IT’S “MONDIALISATION,”
RIGHT? BUT MAYBE, PERHAPS,
THE SIMPLEST WAY TO DEFINE IT IS TO DEFINE IT AS
A FREE MOVEMENT OF GOODS, CAPITAL, AND LABOR,
AND PEOPLE, RIGHT? “FREE MOVEMENT” MEANS
“MOVEMENT WITHOUT BORDERS,” RIGHT? IT’S NOT VERY DIFFICULT
TO MOVE CAPITAL, RIGHT? YOU CAN SIT AT HOME
ON THE INTERNET WEBSITE AND MOVE CAPITAL
ELECTRONICALLY, RIGHT? HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN
“THE LORD OF THE RINGS”? NO? HOW MANY SAW
“LORD OF THE RINGS”? YOU REMEMBER THE RING–
WHEN YOU TURN THE RING, WHAT HAPPENS? WHEN YOU TURN THE RING, WHAT HAPPENS?
>>TURN INVISIBLE.>>YOU’RE INVISIBLE–
IT’S LIKE CAPITAL! WHEN YOU CLICK THE MOUSE ON YOUR SCREEN,
IT’S INVISIBLE, RIGHT? AND CANNOT BE CONTROLLED,
REALLY. SO, IT’S FAIRLY EASY
TO MOVE CAPITAL. IT’S A LITTLE BIT LESS EASY TO MOVE GOODS
ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS, RIGHT? THERE’S STILL– I MEAN– THERE IS ORGANIZATION CALLED
“WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION.” IT USED TO BE “G.A.T.T.” WHICH MEANS “GENERAL AGREEMENT
OF TARIFFS AND TRADE,” RIGHT? WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION
BASICALLY SAYS THAT ALL COUNTRIES WHO ARE MEMBERS
OF THE WORLD TRADE ORGANIZATION HAVE TO ALLOW FOR THE FREE MOVEMENT
OF GOODS ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS, RIGHT? WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT? WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO MOVE, FREELY,
GOODS ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS? CAN ANYBODY–
DOES ANYBODY HAVE AN ANSWER? WHAT’S GOOD ABOUT FREEDOM
OF MOVEMENT OF GOODS? YES? YOU HAVE TO WAIT
FOR THE MICROPHONE. AND I’M LOOKING
AT THE WATCH– FIVE MINUTES.
(laughing) YES, WHAT’S GOOD ABOUT MOVING GOODS
ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS?>>SOME PARTS OF THE WORLD
CAN’T PRODUCE CERTAIN–>>YEAH.
>>CAN’T PRODUCE CERTAIN GOODS THAT OTHERS CAN, AND TO BE ABLE
TO TRADE THOSE GOODS OR MOVE THOSE GOODS
ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS CAN HELP TO INCREASE
ECONOMIC STABILITY OR JUST PROVIDE FOR NEEDS
OF CERTAIN COUNTRIES.>>EXCELLENT! YES, YES, I WOULDN’T HAVE
SAID IT BETTER MYSELF. I MEAN, FREEDOM OF… THE NECESSITY OF MOVING GOODS
FREELY ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS HAS BECOME APPARENT DURING
GREAT DEPRESSION, RIGHT? IN THE 1930s, RIGHT? LET’S SAY YOU PRODUCE TOO MUCH
OF A CERTAIN GOOD, RIGHT? YOU PRODUCE
TOO MUCH OF IT. AND IF YOU CAN’T SELL IT AT HOME,
WHERE CAN YOU SELL IT? YOU TRY TO SELL IT
ABROAD, RIGHT? BUT WHAT HAPPENED DURING
THE GREAT DEPRESSION WAS THAT COUNTRIES STARTED TO CLOSE
THEIR BORDERS TOWARDS FOREIGN GOODS BECAUSE EACH COUNTRY–
EACH INDUSTRIAL COUNTRY– WAS MAKING TOO MUCH
OF THEIR GOODS, TOO. SO, WHY WOULD THEY TAKE
GOODS FROM ABROAD? (laughing)
IF THEY ALREADY TOO– IF ALREADY HAVE TOO MUCH
AT HOME, RIGHT? WHAT HAPPENED? DID THAT– DID CLOSING OF BORDERS
IMPROVE ECONOMIC SITUATION OR DID IT DETERIORATE? DID IT GO BETTER
OR WORSE? WORSE, YES, YES. SO, ONE OF THE BIG LESSONS
OF GREAT DEPRESSION WAS “NEVER CLOSE THE BORDERS.”
(laughing) DO NOT CLOSE THE BORDERS
WHEN THERE IS A CRISIS, AND THAT’S WHY WE HAVE
INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS SUCH AS INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND
AND THINGS LIKE THAT, TO BASICALLY ENSURE
THAT IT DOESN’T HAPPEN, RIGHT? PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM.
(chuckling) MOVING OF LABOR
IS A PROBLEM, RIGHT? AN IDEAL MARKET WOULD BE–
I MEAN, MANY PEOPLE IN THE WEST, ESPECIALLY HERE IN THE UNITED STATES
ARE SAYING, “WE ARE FOR FREE MARKET.” RAISE YOUR HANDS–
HOW MANY OF YOU ARE FOR FREE MARKET? ONLY ONE PERSON? TWO PEOPLE?
(laughing) THREE, FOUR? OKAY, ALL RIGHT. WE ARE FOR FREE MARKET
BUT HOW MANY OF YOU ARE FOR FREE MOVEMENT OF PEOPLE
ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS? IF YOU WANT TO WORK IN MEXICO,
WHY DON’T YOU GO IN MEXICO AND WORK? IF YOU GO TO WORK IN FRANCE, WHY DON’T
YOU FREELY JUST GO TO FRANCE TO WORK? IF PEOPLE WANT TO COME HERE
TO WORK WITHOUT ANY PROBLEMS, WITHOUT ANY GREEN CARDS,
IMMIGRATION PROCESSES– WHY CAN’T I JUST COME HERE
AND WORK AND THAT’S IT? HOW MANY OF YOU ARE
FOR A POLICY LIKE THAT? THE SAME NUMBER AS B–
(all laughing) YOU’RE NOT TELLING ME THE TRUTH,
I THINK, HERE, BUT… I’M SORRY, WHAT?
>>OH, WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT WHY OR WHY IT WOULDN’T BE
A GOOD THING. PLUS, IF YOU QUALIFY FOR A JOB,
YOU MIGHT AS WELL DO IT. YOU KNOW, IF THEY CAN’T FIND
SOMEONE TO FILL THAT POSITION, SOMEBODY FROM
ANOTHER COUNTRY–>>BUT WHY WOULD AN AMERICAN
HAVE ADVANTAGE OVER AN ALBANIAN
OR A CROATIAN? WHY WO– WHY WOULDN’T COMPANIES
SEARCH FOR TALENT ALL ACR– SOME COMPANIES DO. BUT MOST DON’T, RIGHT? WHY WOULDN’T GRCC GO AND SEARCH
FOR TALENT ALL OVER THE WORLD?>>WELL, IT COMES DOWN
TO WHAT’S NEEDED. SO, MIDDLE CLASS,
LIKE, INDUSTRIAL JOBS– A LOT OF PEOPLE CAN DO THOSE WITHOUT
A LOT OF SKILL, BUT FOR ANYTHING HIGHER– HIGH SKILL, HIGH PAY JOBS– YOU NEED
PEOPLE THAT ARE MORE WELL EDUCATED. SO, IF YOU STAY INSIDE
OF YOUR OWN COUNTRY, YOU’RE PROBABLY NOT GOING
TO FIND ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE. I MEAN,
EVEN IN THE UNITED STATES, OF 100 JOBS THAT ARE HIGH SKILL, HIGH PAY,
20 CAN BE TAKEN BY AMERICANS. THE REST HAVE
TO BE INSOURCED. SO, THEY HAVE TO BRING PEOPLE
FROM OUTSIDE TO TAKE THOSE JOBS.>>RIGHT, BUT STILL… I MEAN, MOST COMPANIES DO NOT ADVERTISE
ALL AROUND THE WORLD. SOME DO– GLOBAL COMPANIES DO ADVERTISE
ALL AROUND THE WORLD. AND PEOPLE– DOMESTIC POPULATION–
DOES HAVE THE ADVANTAGE. I MEAN, PEOPLE
IN THE UNITED STATES ARE… COMPLAINING ABOUT
ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. MEXICAN GOVERNMENT IS SAYING,
“WHY DON’T YOU ACCEPT MORE IMMIGRANTS “FROM MEXICO
IN THE UNITED STATES?” BUT AT THE SAME TIME, MEXICO HAS ONE OF THE TOUGHEST
IMMIGRATION POLICIES IN THE WORLD. IT’S REALLY HARD TO MOVE
TO MEXICO AND WORK LEGALLY. (laughing)
IT’S HARDER TO MOVE FROM OUTSIDE OF THE UNITED STATES
INTO THE UNITED STATES AND WORK LEGALLY– IT’S MUCH HARDER. MEXICO IS NOT IMMIGRATION
COUNTRY, RIGHT? SO, ALL COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD
BASICALLY GIVE PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT TO THEIR… TO THEIR DOMESTIC POPULATION,
RIGHT? AND WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT,
WHY IS THAT? (laughing)
WHY IS THAT? IF WE AGREE– IF YOU AGREE WITH THE PREMISE
OF THE FREE MARKET, RIGHT? WHY DON’T WE HAVE THE MARKET
THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FREE, RIGHT? WHICH MEANS FREE MOVEMENT
OF CAPITAL, FREE MOVEMENT OF GOODS
ACROSS NATIONAL BORDERS, FREE MOVEMENT
OF LABOR, RIGHT? WE MISS CERTAIN LABOR
IN MICHIGAN, WHY WOULD NOT WE IMPORT A BUNCH
OF PEOPLE FROM ROMANIA, RIGHT? OR FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD
TO DO IT, RIGHT? WHY DO WE HAVE TO CRY AND SAY, “WELL,
THERE IS HIGH UNEMPLOYMENT IN MICHIGAN,” BUT THERE IS NOT ENOUGH
QUALIFIED PEOPLE, SO PLACES LIKE GRCC HAVE TO DO
EDUCATION PROGRAMS, RIGHT? WHY DON’T WE JUST SKIP
EDUCATION PROGRAMS– I’M TALKING ABOUT,
I GUESS, GRCC NOW? NO.
(laughing) SO– I’M JUST JOKING.
(audience laughing) SO, WHY WOULDN’T THEY GO
TO OTHER PLACES? THINK ABOUT IT–
I MEAN, WHAT IS THE REASON? WHY DO WE PREFER OUR OWN, RIGHT,
AS OPPOSED TO OTHERS? YES– YOU HAVE AN ANSWER
TO THIS QUESTION?>>YEAH.
>>OKAY.>>WE WOULD PREFER
THAT THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IN OUR OWN COUNTRY
IS LOW, AND THAT WE’RE ABLE TO EMPLOY
THE PEOPLE THAT LIVE IN OUR COUNTRY AND ARE A PART OF THIS NATION,
AND TO BE ABLE–>>WHY, WHY? WHY DO WE LIKE OUR NATION
MORE THAN OTHERS? (laughing) IS THERE ECONOMIC REASON
FOR IT? YEAH?>>I’D PERSONALLY SAY “NATIONALISM”–
(mic cuts out) WORLD (cuts out) TODAY. I MEAN… I MEAN, WE HAVE (cuts out)
CULTURES, SO… I MEAN, THAT’S WHAT WOULD
DRIVE PEOPLE TO (cuts out) TO INVEST IN OUR OWN (cuts out).
>>YES, YES, VERY GOOD. YES, NATIONALISM. NATIONALISM IS A FORCE
EVERYWHERE. NOT ONLY THE UNITED STATES–
EVERYWHERE. RIGHT, WE ALWAYS PREFER OUR OWN
COMMUNITY TOWARDS OTHERS, RIGHT? REMEMBER HIGH SCHOOL? “I WOULD LIKE TO BE IN A CERTAIN
COMMUNITY AND EXCLUDE OTHERS.” (laughing)
RIGHT? HOPEFULLY, THE COLLEGE COMMUNITY
CAN BE MORE INCLUSIVE, RIGHT? (mic cuts out) AND WAYS IN WHICH NATIONS
TRY TO RESOLVE THIS PROBLEM OF OUTSIDERS COMING INTO THEIR COMMUNITIES
IS TO BUILD WALLS, RIGHT? NATIONS BUILD WALLS. SOME NATIONS BUILD WALLS
NOT ONLY AROUND THEIR BORDERS, BUT ALSO, SOME NATIONS BUILD WALLS
WITHIN THEIR CITIES, RIGHT? TO SEPARATE ONE COMMUNITY
FROM ANOTHER. AND LET ME SHOW–
I DON’T KNOW. I LIKE WALLS, SO…
(laughing) I PUT– HOW MANY
OF YOU LIKE WALLS? ANYBODY LIKES WALLS,
HMM? YOU LIKE DOORS BETTER? GATES?
(audience laughing) THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE WALLS,
RIGHT? THIS IS A WALL BETWEEN
WEST BANK AND ISRAEL. ISRAEL BUILD THAT WALL TO PREVENT
PEOPLE FROM WEST BANK TO COME IN. DOESN’T IT LOOK IMPRESSIVE? IT HAS A TOWER. LOOK AT HOW TALL IT IS. OF COURSE, ISRAEL IS CLAIMING
IT’S FOR THE SECURITY PURPOSES. THEY DO NOT WANT PALESTINIAN
TERRORISTS TO ENTER ISRAEL AND BASICALLY THREATEN
ITS SECURITY, RIGHT? THIS IS A SMALLER WALL. THIS IS…
(chuckling) WELL, SMALLER TERRITORY
CALLS FOR SMALLER WALLS. (laughing)
THIS IS A SMALLER WALL. THIS IS A WALL BETWEEN, UM…
GAZA STRIP. GAZA STRIP IS ANOTHER ONE–
THEY’RE TWO PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES. ONE IS WEST BANK. MAYBE I CAN SHOW YOU
ON THE MAP. I’LL SHOW YOU
ON THE MAP. I HAVE TO END THE SHOW,
BUT… OKAY, SO THIS IS ISRAEL,
RIGHT? HOPEFULLY, I’LL PRESS THE CORRECT BUTTON
AND NOTHING WILL EXPLODE, RIGHT? (audience chuckling)
OKAY, ALL RIGHT. OH, OKAY,
IN THE WRONG DIRECTION. ALL RIGHT,
SO THIS IS ISRAEL, RIGHT? YOU SEE HOW SMALL
A COUNTRY? ONLY 6 MILLION PEOPLE,
RIGHT? FIVE MILLION JEWS,
ONE MILLION ARABS. SO, THIS IS WEST BANK,
RIGHT? THIS SPECK OF BLUE
IS WEST BANK, RIGHT? IT’S A BANK–
IT’S CALLED “WEST BANK” BECAUSE IT’S THE WEST BANK
OF JORDAN RIVER, RIGHT? JORDAN RIVER SEPARATES, UH, JORDAN–
THE COUNTRY OF JORDAN– RIGHT, FROM ISRAEL AND, THEN HERE,
FROM SO-CALLED “WEST BANK.” WEST BANK IS BASICALLY
A REFUGEE CAMP, RIGHT? IF YOU GO TO IRAN
AND LISTEN TO THE TV NEWS, THEN THE TV NEWS ANCHOR WILL
NEVER MENTION THAT ISRAEL EXISTS. WHEN SOMETHING HAPPENS IN ISRAEL,
THEY’LL REFER TO IT AS “PALESTINE.” (laughing) YESTERDAY, THEY SAID
THERE WAS SIX PEOPLE KILLED IN A SUICIDE ATTACK
IN PALESTINE. THEY NEVER MENTIONED
THE NAME OF ISRAEL. THEY DO NOT WANT TO RECOGNIZE,
EVEN BY WORDS, THAT ISRAEL EXISTS. SO, THIS IS THE WALL–
WHOOPS, WHAT HAPPENED? (laughing)
THIS IS THE WALL. THE WALL THAT I SHOWED YOU–
THE FIRST ONE– IS THE ONE BETWEEN, UM… IS BETWEEN HERE. IT’S RIGHT HERE
BETWEEN– SORRY, IT’S RIGHT HERE,
BETWEEN ISRAEL AND WEST BANK. IT’S RIGHT HERE. AND THEN,
THE SMALLER WALL, RIGHT? THE SMALLER WALL IS THE WALL
BETWEEN GAZA STRIP AND ISRAEL. RIGHT, SO BASICALLY,
ISRAEL IS SURROUNDED BY WALLS THAT PREVENT PEOPLE
FROM COMING IN. PALESTINIANS
FROM COMING IN. PALESTINIANS–
THROUGH THE SMALLER WALL, PALESTINIANS JUST DIG TUNNELS
UNDERNEATH, RIGHT? (chuckling) DO YOU KNOW
WHERE THIS IS? ANYBODY? HAVE YOU BEEN
TO ARIZONA? YEAH, THIS IS A WALL BETWEEN
THE UNITED STATES AND MEXICO, IN THE STATE
OF ARIZONA. I THINK IT’S AN EXCELLENT PHOTO. ISN’T IT AN EXCELLENT PHOTO? IT’S SO NICE AND WAVY. AND THIS IS OBVIOUSLY… THE U.S. BORDER PATROL TRUCK
RIGHT HERE, RIGHT? THIS IS WHAT THE UNITED STATES
HAS BUILT BETWEEN ARIZONA
AND MEXICO, RIGHT? I FIND THIS PHOTO
VERY IRONIC. IT SAYS, “OBAMA IMMIGRATION SUMMIT,”
AND THERE IS A GUY… (laughing)
TRYING TO CLIMB THE WALL FROM MEXICO INTO
THE UNITED STATES. THAT’S A WALL
IN TEXAS. I THINK IF PEOPLE
WHO SAY IT’S, UH– “A PICTURE SAYS A THOUSAND WORDS,”
I THINK THEY’RE RIGHT. THEY’RE RIGHT. THIS IS NOT A WALL, BUT IT
HAS A FUNCTION OF A WALL. THIS IS THE BORDER BETWEEN MOROCCO
AND SPAIN. I CAN SHOW YOU
ON THE MAP. I’M SO PROUD THAT I HAVE A MAP.
(audience laughing) LET’S SEE…
RIGHT HERE. OKAY. SEE HERE–
RIGHT HERE, RIGHT? THIS IS THE COUNTRY OF SPAIN,
THIS IS THE COUNTRY OF MOROCCO, RIGHT? MOROCCO IS OBVIOUSLY
A NORTHERN AFRICAN COUNTRY, RIGHT? HERE’S THE–
MOROCCO AND SPAIN ARE SEPARATED BY
THE STRAIT OF GIBRALTAR, RIGHT? THE STRAIT OF GIBRALTAR IS PARTLY
UNDER THE OWNERSHIP OF GREAT BRITAIN AND PARTLY UNDER
THE OWNERSHIP OF SPAIN. HAS ANYBODY BEEN
TO GIBRALTAR? NO? I REMEMBER GIBRALTAR BECAUSE
I WAS DRIVING 25 HOURS FROM GIBRALTAR TO CROATIA,
SO THIS IS THE… (laughing)
THIS IS PROBABLY THE ONLY REASON WHY I REMEMBER GIBRALTAR,
WHICH IS JUST A HUGE ROCK WITH GREAT RESTAURANTS. BUT, UM, I THINK IT’S– THIS–
IT’S BARBED WIRE, YOU SEE? IT’S BARBED WIRE BETWEEN
MOROCCO AND SPAIN, AND IT’S ELECTRIFIED. RIGHT? IT’S A BORDER BETWEEN
THE DEVELOPED WORLD AND DEVELOPING WORLD. IT’S A BORDER BETWEEN
US AND THEM, RIGHT? YOU KNOW, EUROPE PRIDES ITSELF
ON ITS LIBERAL PRINCIPLES… BUT LOOK AT WHAT THEY BUILT, RIGHT?
(chuckling) AND THEY HAVE LITTLE TOWERS, RIGHT,
TO BASICALLY CONTROL WHAT’S HAPPENING, SO THAT IMMIGRANTS
FROM THE DEVELOPED WORLD CANNOT FREELY
CROSS INTO THE– FROM MOROCCO
TO SPAIN, RIGHT? SO, ON THE ONE HAND, WE ARE TRYING
TO BUILD… FREE MOVEMENT
OF CAPITAL AND GOODS… BUT WHEN WE ARE THINKING OF LABOR
FROM OTHER PLACES, WE ARE NOT SO SURE. (laughing)
SOMETIMES, WE BUILD WALLS. WE BUILD WALLS BECAUSE
WE ARE AFRAID OF THOSE WHO MIGHT COME AND TAKE AWAY
OUR ECONOMIC WELL-BEING AND TAKE AWAY OUR CULTURAL HERITAGE
AND TAKE AWAY OUR… “WAY OF LIFE,”
AS THEY SAY IT, RIGHT? LET ME SHOW YOU… ANOTHER WALL. THIS WALL IS NOT
BETWEEN COUNTRIES. THIS WALL IS IN A CITY. HAS ANYBODY SEEN
THIS WALL BEFORE? HAS ANYBODY
BEEN TO ITALY? THIS IS A WALL IN THE CITY
OF PADUA IN ITALY. IT’S IN THE MIDDLE
OF THE CITY. WHAT DO YOU THINK
IT SEPARATES? JUST A GUESS. WHAT DO YOU THINK
THIS WALL SEPARATES? ANYBODY?
>>(indistinct speaking). DIFFERENT CLASSES OF PEOPLE?
>>YEAH. (cuts out) PART OF THE
(cuts out) PART OF THE CITY,
RIGHT? (cuts out)
FROM THE WHITES. BUT ALSO (cuts out) WALL. THIS WALL WAS BUILT IN ’97. IT IS NOT A REMAIN OF A PREVIOUS ERA…
(chuckling) THE CITY OF PADUA, WHICH IS ONE
OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL CITIES IN ITALY, ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL CITIES
IN THE WORLD– YOU SHOULD GO
TO PADUA… AND SEE THE REAL WALLS
OF PADUA, RIGHT? ALTHOUGH THIS IS A VERY REAL WALL, TOO. THIS WALL SEPARATES THE POOR
FROM THE RICH AND UPPER MIDDLE CLASS. BECAUSE… BECAUSE THE CITY OF PADUA
THOUGHT THAT IMMIGRANTS WHO COME TO THE CITY
OF PADUA– IMMIGRANTS WHO COME TO ITALY FROM
USUALLY NOTHERN AFRICAN COUNTRIES– ARE THE ONES WHO HAS TO BE SEPARATED
FROM “THE REST OF US,” RIGHT? OR FROM THE REST OF THEM, BECAUSE THEY WILL JUST
DESTROY THE CITY, RIGHT? SO, THEY’RE PUT IN SORT OF A GHETTO,
RIGHT, TO LIVE BEHIND THIS WALL. YOU SEE, JUST NEXT
TO THE WALL IS… APARTMENT COMPLEX FOR
THE POOR IMMIGRANTS, RIGHT? THIS IS AN APARTMENT COMPLEX. IMAGINE THE VIEW THAT YOU HAVE
IF YOU LIVE ON THE FIRST FLOOR. (audience laughing)
HMM? YOU WAKE UP EVERY MORNING AND THERE
IS A WALL JUST IN FRONT OF YOUR BEDROOM. IT’S NOT– ONCE AGAIN,
IT’S NOT BETWEEN COUNTRIES. IT’S IN ONE CITY IN A DEVELOPED (cuts out)
STATE, RIGHT? (laughing) IT’S NOT LIKE… WE ARE SEPARATING
MOROCCO FROM SPAIN. WE ARE SEPARATING ONE PART
OF A HIGHLY RICH DEVELOPED COUNTRY, RIGHT, FROM ANOTHER PART
IN THE ONE CITY. RIGHT? YES? WHAT IS EUROPEAN UNION? I THINK I’VE TALKED ENOUGH WITH THE WALLS,
SO I CAN TALK ABOUT EUROPEAN UNION. (laughing)
THE EUROPEAN UNION IS A COLLECTION
OF 27 COUNTRIES, RIGHT? THE MAIN CRITERION
THAT BASICALLY TELLS YOU– THE MAIN CRITERION FOR BEING
A MEMBER OF EUROPEAN UNION, OF COURSE, IS TO BE A EUROPEAN COUNTRY, RIGHT?
(laughing) THAT’S THE MAIN CRITERION. I MEAN, THAT LOOKS HARDER–
THAT IS HARDER THAN IT LOOKS, ACTUALLY. MOROCCO IS CLAIMING
TO BE A EUROPEAN COUNTRY… (laughing)
SO, MOROCCO WOULD LIKE TO BE. YOU REMEMBER MOROCCO? CONNECTED WITH– OR SEPARATED BY
THE STRAIT OF GIBRALTAR, RIGHT? UH, RUSSIA IS NOT SURE… WHETHER IT’S EUROPEAN
OR NOT, RIGHT? ISRAEL IS SORT OF
THINKING ABOUT IT. (laughing)
WHAT DO WE DO WITH TURKEY? I MEAN… IF YOU ARE EUROPEAN COUNTRY
AND YOU ARE TURKEY… IT’S “WHAT DO WE DO
WITH TURKEY?” LET ME SHOW YOU WHERE TURKEY IS,
RIGHT HERE ON THE MAP. IT’S RIGHT HERE, RIGHT? SO, OFFICIAL BORDER BETWEEN
EUROPE AND ASIA IS THE BORDER… RIGHT NEAR ISTANBUL. ISTANBUL IS BASICALLY THE… UM, CITY IN TWO WORLDS,
ON TWO CONTINENTS, RIGHT? WESTERN ISTANBUL IS A CITY IN EUROPE
AND EASTERN ISTANBUL IS– ANYBODY BEEN TO ISTANBUL? YOU SHOULD TRAVEL.
(audience laughing) EAST ISTANBUL IS DEFINITELY
A PLACE IN ASIA, RIGHT? SO, BEING A EUROPEAN COUNTRY
IS NOT AS EASILY DETERMINED AS IT MIGHT LOOK,
RIGHT? MANY COUNTRIES ARE
CLAIMING TO BE IN EUROPE, JUST IN ORDER TO BECOME MEMBERS
OF THE EUROPEAN UNION. UH, TURKEY HAS BEEN NEGOTIATING
WITH THE EUROPEAN UNION TO ENTER EUROPEAN UNION
FROM 1987… THEY’VE BEEN NEGOTIATING
SINCE 1987, RIGHT? THAT’S LIKE 25 YEARS AGO,
THEY STARTED NEGOTIATING, AND THEY HAVEN’T MOVED,
RIGHT? THEY HAVEN’T MOVED IN THE PROCESS
IN NEGOTIATIONS AT ALL, RIGHT? RIGHT? SO, UH… THIS EUROPEAN UNION IS NOT JUST
A RANDOM GROUP OF COUNTRIES. I MEAN, EUROPEAN UNION HAS… COMMON INSTITUTIONS,
RIGHT? WE ARE NOT SURE WHETHER
WE ARE SOMETHING CALLED
“INTERGOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATION” OR WE ARE SOMETHING CALLED
“SUPERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION,” RIGHT? COUNTRIES DISAGREE
OF WHO EUROPEAN– OR WHAT EUROPEAN UNION IS,
RIGHT? INTERGOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATION
WOULD MEAN THAT MOST OF THE POWER
IN THE EUROPEAN UNION REMAINS WITH THE STATES,
WITH THE MEMBER STATES, RIGHT? SO, IT’S SORT OF
CONFEDERATION, RIGHT? THE MOST OF THE POWER REMAINS
WITHIN THE STATES, RIGHT? IF YOU CALL YOURSELF
“INTERGOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATION,” THEN MOST OF THE POWER
REMAINS WITHIN THE STATES. BUT IF YOU CALL YOURSELF
“SUPERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION,” THAT MEANS THAT YOU, AS A COUNTRY,
GIVE UP CERTAIN POWERS TO ORGANIZATIONS OUTSIDE
OF THAT COUNTRY, RIGHT? AND EUROPEAN UNION DOES
HAVE SUCH ORGANIZATIONS. IT HAS EUROPEAN COUNCIL,
RIGHT? IT HAS A EUROPEAN COMMISSION. IT HAS EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT,
RIGHT? PEOPLE IN EUROPE
CAN DIRECTLY VOTE… FOR THE MEMBERS
OF EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT, IN ADDITION TO VOTING FOR THEIR
DOMESTIC PARLIAMENTS, RIGHT? AND EUROPE IS BASED
ON THREE PILLARS… THEY CALL THEM “PILLARS.” SO, IT’S JUSTICE
IN HOME AFFAIRS… AND IMMIGRATION BELONGS
TO JUSTICE IN HOME AFFAIRS. IT’S FOREIGN POLICY,
RIGHT? AND ECONOMIC COMMUNITIES–
SINGLE MARKET AND MONETARY UNION. SINGLE MARKET
SIMPLY MEANS… THAT THERE ARE NOT OBSTACLES
TO TRADE. BUT WE SAW THAT
THEY HAVE PEOPLE (indistinct)– (laughing)
RIGHT? MONETARY UNION
SIMPLY MEANS THAT ALL COUNTRIES
USE THE SAME CURRENCY. THIS IS NOT ENTIRELY TRUE
IN EUROPE, RIGHT? SOME COUNTRIES
DO NOT USE EURO, RIGHT? GREAT BRITAIN DOES NOT USE EURO,
DENMARK DOES NOT USE EURO, RIGHT? SO, SOME COUNTRIES WOULD LIKE TO
KEEP THEIR MONETARY POLICIES ALIVE, WITHOUT USING EURO. SO, THAT’S THE EUROPEAN UNION. EUROPEAN UNION–
SO, IT’S A GROUP OF 27 COUNTRIES… WHO DON’T REALLY KNOW WHAT
THEY ARE TOGETHER, RIGHT? (laughing)
SOME PEOPLE THINK IT’S SUPERNATIONAL ORGANIZATION, WHICH MEANS…
INSTITUTIONS SUCH AS EUROPEAN COUNCIL AND EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT
AND EUROPEAN COMMISSION ARE BASICALLY TELLING
OTHER COUNTRIES WHAT TO DO. OTHERS ARE THINKING THAT EUROPEAN UNION
IS INTERGOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATION. INTERGOVERNMENTAL ORGANIZATION
MEANS THAT MOST OF THE POWERS REMAIN WITH THE COUNTRIES,
RATHER THAN… THESE POWERS BEING TRANSFERRED
TO THIS EUROPEAN INSTITUTIONS. WE SORT OF HAVE
A SPLIT PERSONALITY. WE DON’T KNOW WHO WE ARE YET.
(laughing) I MEAN, EUROPEAN UNION WAS
ESTABLISHED IN 1952, RIGHT, AS THE EUROPEAN COAL
AND STEEL COMMUNITY, RIGHT? SO, IT’S STILL– I MEAN,
WE’RE STILL YOUNG, RIGHT? (laughing)
SO, THERE’S STILL TIME TO– I MEAN– AND WE ARE
IN OUR “COLLEGE YEARS.” IN COLLEGE YEARS, YOU PEOPLE ARE SEARCHING
FOR YOUR PERSONAL IDENTITIES, RIGHT? YOU’RE SAYING,
“WHO AM I REALLY?” RIGHT? WE ARE– IN TERMS OF BEING
A GROUP OF COUNTRIES, WE ARE IN COLLEGE, RIGHT? WE ARE TRYING TO FIND OUT WHO
WE REALLY ARE AS A GROUP, RIGHT? WHO WE REALLY ARE
AS A GROUP, RIGHT? IMMIGRATION NUMBERS
IN EUROPEAN UNION, RIGHT? EUROPEAN UNION POPULATION
IS 502 MILLION PEOPLE. FIVE-ZERO-TWO. THAT’S THE LATEST CENSUS
FROM 2008– 2010, SORRY. FIVE-HUNDRED TWO MILLION PEOPLE. UNITED STATES HAS AROUND
300 MILLION PEOPLE, RIGHT? IMMIGRANT POPULATION BORN
OUTSIDE OF EUROPE– 32 MILLION. EUROPE HAS AROUND
32 MILLION PEOPLE BORN OUTSIDE OF EUROPE,
WHO LIVE IN EUROPE… MEANING EUROPEAN UNION,
ACTUALLY. THAT’S AROUND SIX PERCENT
OF THE POPULATION. DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW
MANY FIRST GENERATION, FOREIGN-BORN IMMIGRANTS
LIVE IN THE UNITED STATES? NOT ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS.
(laughing) HOW MANY LEGAL IMMIGRANTS? HOW MANY LEGAL IMMIGRANTS? FIRST YEAR, FOREIGN-BORN
LEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE UNITED STATES. ANYBODY KNOWS? WHAT’S A GUESS?
>>(indistinct speaking).>>FIVE-HUNDRED THOUSAND? NO.>>(indistinct speaking).
>>FORTY MILLION?>>YEAH, PROBABLY TEN
TO FIFTEEN MILLION–>>TEN TO FIFTEEN MILLION? IT’S VERY SIMILAR
TO EUROPE. IT’S AROUND
30 MILLION PEOPLE. THIRTY MILLION LEGAL… FIRST GENERATION,
FOREIGN-BORN, RIGHT? AROUND 30 MILLION PEOPLE,
RIGHT? THE UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT IS CLAIMING
AROUND 12 MILLION ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. SO, IF YOU PUT LEGAL
AND ILLEGAL TOGETHER, IT’S AROUND 42 MILLION PEOPLE
WHO ARE NOT BORN IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THEY ARE FIRST GENERATION,
RIGHT? OR SECOND GENERATION, IN TERMS
OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, RIGHT? AND THEY LIVE IN
THE UNITED STATES, RIGHT? THE UNI– THE–
EUROPE– EUROPEAN UNION
DOES NOT HAVE A CAP ON HOW MANY LEGAL IMMIGRANTS
THEY CAN RECEIVE. THIS IS VERY STRANGE. THERE IS NO CAP,
THERE IS NO LIMIT. THERE IS NO LIMIT THAT SAYS,
“THIS IS HOW MANY IMMIGRANTS “CAN ENTER
EUROPEAN UNION.” DOES UNITED STATES
HAVE THE LIMIT? IN TERMS OF LEGAL IMMIGRATION…
YES? DOES ANYBODY KNOW
WHAT THE LIMIT IS? YOU HAVE TO STAY SILENT
BEFORE THE MICROPHONE. (laughing)>>IT’S DIFFERENT FOR
EVERY COUNTRY, BUT–>>BUT ALL TOGETHER–
ALL TOGETHER. THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW,
RIGHT?>>IT’S DIFFERENT FOR EVERY COUNTRY.
>>YEAH, THAT’S TRUE. BUT THERE IS A FEDERAL LAW
THAT BASICALLY… CAPS THE NUMBER
OF LEGAL IMMIGRANTS IN THE UNITED STATES–
227,000 PER YEAR. THAT’S THE CONGRESSIONAL CAP–
227,000 EMPLOYMENT-BASED IMMIGRANTS… THE PEOPLE WHO WOULD LIKE
TO COME INTO THE UNITED STATES TO LIVE AND WORK. TWO-HUNDRED TWENTY-SEVEN THOUSAND– THAT’S THE NUMBER DETERMINED
BY THE CONGRESS IN 1961! (laughing)
IT HASN’T CHANGED SINCE, RIGHT? A HUNDRED AND FORTY THOUSAND
FAMILY REUNIFICATIONS… RIGHT? SO, ALL TOGETHER,
367,000 PER YEAR– LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, RIGHT? AS FAR AS ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS
THROUGH MEXICO… IT’S BEEN AROUND
230,000 LAST YEAR. BUT IN 2005,
IT WAS ALMOST 600,000… BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMIC CRISIS, THE TEMPO, THE RATE
OF ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION– THE NUMBER OF THE PEOPLE EVERY YEAR
WHO ILLEGALLY COME INTO THE UNITED STATES HAS PLUMMETED. SO, ON THE ONE HAND,
UNITED STATES DOES HAVE A CAP, RIGHT? ON THE OTHER HAND,
EUROPEAN UNION DOES NOT HAVE A CAP. THE EUROPEAN UNION ADMITS, LEGALLY,
AROUND 1.5 MILLION PEOPLE A YEAR, AS OPPOSED TO 360,000
INTO THE UNITED STATES– 1.5 MILLION, RIGHT? YES, THE UNIT–
UH– EUROPEAN UNION DOES HAVE MORE PEOPLE–
THE HIGHER POPULATION– BUT THE EUROPEAN UNION IS ONLY ONE-THIRD
OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA– ONLY ONE-THIRD,
IN TERMS OF THE TERRITORY. YOU CAN BASICALLY FIT
THREE EUROPEAN UNIONS INTO THE UNITED STATES. SO, WE HAVE JUST ONE-THIRD
OF THE TERRITORY… (laughing)
AND, UH… WE STILL RECEIVE… ALMOST FIVE TIMES AS MANY
IMMIGRANTS PER YEAR… WITHOUT A CAP. THERE IS NO CAP,
THERE IS NO QUOTA, THERE IS NO LIMIT HOW MANY LEGAL
IMMIGRANTS CAN ENTER EUROPEAN UNION. EUROPE DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE,
DESPITE ALL THESE PROBLEMS, RIGHT? DESPITE THE CULTURAL PROBLEMS,
DESPITE THE ECONOMIC PROBLEMS, DESPITE THE WELFARE STATE PROBLEMS, EUROPE DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE BASED
ON THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN OR RACE, IN TERMS OF ACCEPTING
LEGAL IMMIGRANTS, RIGHT? THE UNITED STATES DOES. NOT OPENLY.
(laughing) BUT IF YOU’RE A CHINESE PERSON,
RIGHT, IT’S– YOU HAVE TO WAIT MUCH LONGER
THAN IF YOU’RE A CROATIAN PERSON. THEY TELL YOU
IT’S NOT BECAUSE OF… RACIAL OR ETHNIC
OR NATIONAL DISCRIMINATION. IT’S BECAUSE THERE ARE ALREADY
SO MANY CHINESE PEOPLE, RIGHT? (laughing)
THAT “WE BASICALLY WANT TO REDUCE “THE INFLUX OF CHINESE AND MANY
OTHER ASIAN NATIONS,” RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY OF THEM
HERE IN THE UNITED STATES, AND THEREFORE,
“WE HAVE TO REDUCE THE NUMBER.” EUROPE DOES NOT
THINK ABOUT THAT, ALTHOUGH IT HAS VERY STRONG
POLITICAL PROPONENTS WHO WOULD LIKE
TO CHANGE, RIGHT? A LOT OF POLITICIANS IN EUROPE
WOULD LIKE TO REDUCE IMMIGRATION FROM MUSLIM COUNTRIES
BECAUSE THEY ARE SAYING MUSLIMS DO NOT SHARE ONE OF THE BASIC VALUES
OF WESTERN POLITICS, WHICH IS THE SEPARATION
BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE, RIGHT? OOPS– WHY DID IT DO THAT?
(chuckling) NO. OH, OKAY. RIGHT? LOOK AT THIS–
THIS IS CRAMMING THEM IN. THIS IS IRONIC TITLE
OF A BRITISH PARLIAMENT– “HOW DO WE CRAM
ALL THE IMMIGRANTS IN?” THIS IS A NUMBER OF IMMIGRANTS IN TOP–
WHAT IS THIS– TOP 12 COUNTRIES
IN EUROPE. YOU JUST HAVE TO ADD
ANOTHER ZERO. SO, A NON-U.S. NATIONAL
IN SPAIN, 4.99 MILLION– ALMOST 5 MILLION PEOPLE
IN SPAIN. SPAIN HAS AROUND
55 MILLION PEOPLE. SO, A LITTLE BIT LESS THAN TEN PERCENT
OF THE POPULATION IS FOREIGN-BORN, RIGHT? NON-E.U.-BORN, RIGHT? OUTSIDE OF EUROPE, RIGHT? U.K., 3.07 MILLION,
AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, RIGHT? THE NETHERLANDS HAS–
THE NETHERLANDS IS A SMALL COUNTRY, RIGHT? THE SIZE OF NETHERLANDS– THE NETHERLANDS
IS A LITTLE BIT BIGGER THAN LOS ANGELES… IN TERMS OF THE LAND AREA,
RIGHT? SO, NETHERLANDS HAS
390,000 FOREIGN-BORN– OUTSIDE-OF-EUROPE-BORN– IMMIGRANTS, BUT LOOK AT THE DENSITY
TO EACH SQUARE KILOMETER– 398 PEOPLE PER SQUARE KILOMETER,
BECAUSE IT’S SO VERY SMALL, RIGHT? (laughing) YOU CAN DRIVE FROM ONE SIDE
OF NETHERLANDS TO ANOTHER IN JUST TWO HOURS–
LESS THAN TWO HOURS– ONE HOUR AND 45 MINUTES. NORTH, SOUTH, AND EAST, WEST,
RIGHT? IT’S SO SMALL. THIS IS EVEN MORE
INTERESTING. LOOK AT THE RELIGIOUS COMPOSITION
OF IMMIGRANTS IN THE EUROPEAN UNION. THESE ARE– THIS IS THE RELIGIOUS COMPOSITION
THAT BASICALLY INCLUDES ALL IMMIGRANTS, WHICH MEANS IMMIGRANTS
FROM OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES– FROM WITHIN EUROPE, RIGHT? FROM OUTSIDE EUROPEAN UNION,
RIGHT? THERE ARE COUNTRIES IN EUROPE THAT
ARE OUTSIDE OF EUROPEAN UNION, RIGHT? UKRAINE, CROATIA, ALBANIA, BOSNIA,
AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, RIGHT? SO, THIS IS THE RELIGIOUS COMPOSITION–
56 PERCENT CHRISTIAN, BUT LOOK AT THE SECOND
LARGEST POPULATION– 27 PERCENT
OF IMMIGRANTS IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, INCLUDING THOSE WHO CAME
FROM OTHER EUROPEAN UNION– FROM OTHER EUROPEAN COUNTRIES,
27– LOOK AT– IF YOU EXCLUDE EUROPEAN COUNTRIES,
IF YOU EXCLUDE COUNTRIES IN EUROPE, RIGHT? THEN, 42 PERCENT OF IMMIGRANTS
INTO EUROPEAN UNION FROM OUTSIDE OF EUROPE ARE CHRISTIAN,
AND THEN 39– 39, A HUGE NUMBER– 39 PERCENT
OF BASICALLY… IMMIGRANTS FROM OUTSIDE
EUROPEAN COUNTRIES ARE MUSLIM. THAT’S A HUGE CHALLENGE
FOR MANY EUROPEAN POLITICIANS. THAT IS A HUGE CHALLENGE. IN ORDER TO PROCESS
THIS IMMIGRANT, EUROPEAN UNION CREATES
DETENTION CENTERS. THESE ARE THE FACES OF IMMIGRANTS
IN THE EUROPEAN UNION. THIS IS A DETENTION CENTER
IN GREECE. MANY, UM… MANY, UM, IMMIGRANTS
FROM ASIA– FROM ASIAN COUNTRIES– WHO WANTS TO GET INTO THE EUROPEAN UNION
ARE COMING THROUGH GREECE. SO, GREECE FIRST PUT THEM
INTO THESE DETENTION CENTERS, RIGHT? THEY LOOK A LITTLE BIT
LIKE CONCENTRATION CAMPS. JUST A LITTLE BIT. AND, UH…
THEN THEY PROCESS THEM, AND THEY BASICALLY ACCEPT
AROUND 25 PERCENT, AND THEN THE REST
75 PERCENT IS… IS DEPORTED BACK
FROM WHERE THEY CAME FROM. COMMON E.U. IMMIGRATION POLICY. WHAT ARE THE BASIS
ON WHICH YOU CAN… BASICALLY CLAIM
YOUR RIGHT TO ENTER THE EUROPEAN UNION
AS A LEGAL IMMIGRANT? WHAT ARE THE BASIS? WHAT ARE THE CRITERIA? WORK. YOU CAN COME TO THE EUROPEAN UNION
TO WORK, LEGALLY, ACCORDING TO THE RULES
SET BY THE EUROPEAN UNION, RIGHT? COMMON E.U. IMMIGRATION POLICIES
ARE RELATIVELY NEW. IT COMES FROM 2009. BEFORE 2009,
EACH EUROPEAN UNION COUNTRY HAD ITS OWN IMMIGRATION POLICIES,
RIGHT? BUT SINCE 2009, THE EUROPEAN UNION
WANTED BASICALLY TO MAKE IMMIGRATION POLICIES
COMMON. TO BASICALLY CREATE POLICIES
THAT WILL BE VALID FOR ALL COUNTRIES IN THE EUROPEAN UNION,
RIGHT? THESE POLICIES ARE COMING FROM
THE EUROPEAN COMMISSION, RIGHT? THERE IS SOMETHING CALLED
“BLUE CARDS,” RIGHT? I’M A FOREIGNER IN THIS COUNTRY,
SO WHEN I GOT MY GREEN CARD, I WAS REALLY SURPRISED
THAT IT’S GREEN. (chuckling)
I ALSO THOUGHT IT WAS BLUE. BUT IN EUROPE,
WHEN YOU… GET RIGHT TO WORK, RIGHT,
YOU GET A BLUE CARD. THIS BLUE CARD, HOWEVER,
IS ONLY WHAT MY STUDENT, PHILIP, HERE WAS TALKING
ABOUT LATER– BEFORE– THIS BLUE CARD IS ONLY FOR HIGHLY SKILLED
AND EDUCATED IMMIGRANTS. YOU CAN GET A BLUE CARD
ONLY IF YOU HAVE… A COLLEGE DEGREE
IN THE FIELD WHERE– IN THE FIELD, BASICALLY, THAT IS
SOUGHT AFTER IN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES– IN THE COUNTRIES
OF EUROPEAN UNION, RIGHT? THIS BLUE CARD IS ONLY VALID
FOR TWO YEARS, AT FIRST, RIGHT? AND THEN, YOU CAN EXTEND IT
TO FIVE YEARS, AND THEN TEN YEARS,
AND THEN AFTER TEN YEARS, YOU HAVE THE RIGHTS TO A CITIZENSHIP
OF YOUR RESIDENT COUNTRY WHERE YOU LIVE
IN EUROPE, RIGHT? THE UNITED STATES, UH,
GIVES YOU GREEN CARD, REGARDLESS OF WHAT KIND
OF EDUCATION YOU HAVE. (laughing) YOU CAN GET THE GREEN CARD
FOR WORK… AND YOU DON’T HAVE TO HAVE
ANY POSSIBLE DEGREE. YOU DON’T HAVE TO EVEN HAVE
AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL DEGREE. IS THERE AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL DEGREE? IN EUROPE, THERE IS.
(laughing) EVEN IF YOU DIDN’T GO
TO ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, YOU CAN STILL THEORETICALLY
GET A GREEN CARD. BUT BLUE CARD–
BLUE CARD DOES NOT WORK IN EUR– ER, I MEAN, UM, JUST HAVING
ELEMENTARY EDUCATION DOES NOT WORK IN EUROPE
IF YOU WANT TO GET A BLUE CARD, RIGHT? YOU CAN GET ONLY SEASONAL PERMIT
IN A EUROPEAN UNION COUNTRY– IF YOU DO NOT HAVE
A COLLEGE DEGREE, YOU CAN ONLY HAVE SEASONAL PERMIT
FOR SEASONAL WORK. IT’S LOW AND MEDIUM SKILL WORK,
RIGHT? PICK STRAWBERRIES,
WORK IN THE CONSTRUCTION SITE AND SO FORTH, RIGHT? IN THE UNITED STATES,
YOU CAN GET THE GREEN CARD, WHICH IS PERMANENT
RESIDENCE… YOU CAN GET IT EVEN IF YOU DO MEDIUM
AND LOW-SKILL WORK, RIGHT? IN EUROPE, YOU CANNOT
GET PERMANENT RESIDENCE… AT LEAST,
NOT AS FIRST, IF YOU DO NOT HAVE
A COLLEGE DEGREE. SO, THOSE OF YOU WHO WOULD LIKE TO
LIVE IN EUROPE, GRADUATE FROM COLLEGE… IN ENGINEERING OR MATH OR SCIENCE,
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, RIGHT? FAMILY REUNIFICATION. FAMILY REUNIFICATION
IS ANOTHER IMPORTANT CRITERIA, AND THAT BASICALLY ALLOWS PEOPLE
TO GET INTO EUROPEAN UNION LEGALLY AND TO BE RESIDENTS, RIGHT? FAMILY UNIFICATION–
WHAT IS DIFFERENT BETWEEN THE UNITED STATES
AND EUROPEAN UNION, THAT EUROPEAN UNION DOES RECOGNIZE
SAME-SEX COUPLES, ALL RIGHT? SO, IF YOU’RE A GAY PERSON AND YOU WANT TO BRING YOUR PARTNER
FROM YOUR COUNTRY OF ORIGIN, YOU CAN DO THAT, RIGHT? YOU CAN EVEN BRING A PERSON
OF A DIFFERENT GENDER THAT YOU ARE NOT MARRIED TO. YOU CAN CLAIM THAT THIS PERSON
LIVES WITH YOU AS YOUR PARTNER, AS– HOW DO YOU CALL IT HERE
IN THE UNITED STATES? “COMMON LAW”? COMMON LAW RELATIONSHIPS–
SOMETHING LIKE THAT, YES? COMMON LAW, YEAH? SO, IF I CAME TO CROATIA
AND I HAD A WIFE– IF I CAME TO GERMANY AND I HAD
A WIFE IN CROATIA– NOT WIFE– IF I HAD A WOMAN IN CROATIA…
(laughing) WHO IS NOT MY WIFE…
(audience laughing) HOPEFULLY MY WIFE WILL NOT
WATCH THIS PRESENTATION, RIGHT? WHOOPS.
(audience laughing) BUT… BUT IF SOMETHING
LIKE THAT WAS TRUE, I COULD BRING MY WOMAN, SORT OF–
MY PARTNER, MY FEMALE PARTNER– TO GERMANY AND GIVE HER
THE LEGAL RESIDENCE IN THAT PARTICULAR COUNTRY. THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE
IN THE UNITED STATES, RIGHT? IN THE UNITED STATES, IF YOU
CLAIM FAMILY REUNIFICATION, YOU EITHER HAVE TO BE A BLOOD RELATIVE
OF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE HERE, OR YOU HAVE TO BASICALLY BE–
YOU HAVE TO BE MARRIED. IN SOME COUNTRIES IN EUROPE,
YOU HAVE ALSO THE LONG-TERM RESIDENCIES. IF YOU ARE BASICALLY A LONG-TERM RESIDENT
IN A PARTICULAR COUNTRY, THEN THAT COUNTRY MAY–
DEPENDING ON THE COUNTRY– BUT THAT COUNTRY MAY GIVE YOU
CITIZENSHIP AUTOMATICALLY. FOR EXAMPLE,
GREAT BRITAIN– IF YOU MANAGE TO BE A LEGAL RESIDENT
IN GREAT BRITAIN FOR AT LEAST FIVE YEARS, ONE DAY AFTER FIVE YEARS, YOU’LL JUST RECEIVE BRITISH PASSPORT
IN THE MAIL. RIGHT? HERE, IN THE UNITED STATES, YOU HAVE
TO HAVE GREEN CARD FOR FIVE YEARS AND THEN YOU CAN
APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP. YOU HAVE TO PASS A TEST… THAT I NEED TO GIVE
TO MY STUDENTS. CITIZENSHIP ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS.
(laughing) AND BASICALLY, THEN, THE UNITED STATES
GOVERNMENT ALLOWS YOU TO HAVE, RIGHT? SO, IN SOME ASPECTS, THE UNITED STATES
IMMIGRATION SYSTEM IS MORE LIBERAL. ON THE OTHER ASPECTS,
HOWEVER, EUROPEAN IMMIGRATION SYSTEM
IS MORE LIBERAL, IN TERMS OF, BASICALLY,
HOW THEY TREAT GAY COUPLES AND COMMON LAW COMMUNITIES–
PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT MARRIED. POLYGAMY–
IT’S NOT RECOGNIZED. YOU CANNOT CLAIM,
“I HAVE MORE THAN ONE WIFE” OR “MORE THAN ONE HUSBAND, I NEED TO
BRING THEM INTO EUROPEAN UNION COUNTRY.” THAT DOESN’T WORK, RIGHT. NOT YET. IT MAYBE CHANGE. YES, YOU HAVE A CASE LIKE THAT, OR…?
(audience laughing)>>JUST CLAIM THAT THEY’RE MISTRESSES.
>>I’M SORRY, WHAT?>>JUST CLAIM THAT THEY’RE MISTRESSES.
>>OTHER MISTRESSES? YES, YES.
(laughing) MULTIPLE COMMON LAW–
MULTIPLE COMMON LAW PARTNERS, YES! (laughing)
THAT WILL BE INTERESTING, YES. YES, SO THE CRUCIAL QUESTION
FROM THE POLITICAL POINT OF VIEW IS, “HOW WELL ARE NON-EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS
INTEGRATED INTO THE POLITICS “OF THEIR HOST
E.U. COUNTRIES?” RIGHT? YOU SEE THAT BOAT
WITH IMMIGRANTS? THIS IS THE BOAT
THAT WENT FROM TUNISIA– YOU REMEMBER
ARAB REVOLUTION, RIGHT? SPRING–
ARAB SPRING, ACTUALLY. IT STARTED IN SPRING OF–
IN MARCH OF 2011 IN TUNISIA, RIGHT? AND THIS IS TUNISIAN IMMIGRANTS
ON THE BOAT… LAST MARCH… WHO ARE BASICALLY TRYING
TO REACH THE COAST OF ITALY. DOESN’T LOOK LIKE
A VERY SAFE BOAT. IT SEEMS THAT TOO MANY PEOPLE
FOUND THAT BOAT, RIGHT? BUT THIS IS JUST ONE
OF MANY IMMIGRANT BOATS THAT– NOT ONLY IN 2011,
BUT PREVIOUSLY, THIS IS THE WAY IN WHICH, UH… IN WHICH IMMIGRANTS
FROM NORTHERN AFRICA ARE TRYING TO REACH
EUROPEAN COASTS. BUT TO GO BACK
TO OUR CRUCIAL QUESTION– SO, HOW WELL ARE NON-EUROPEAN
IMMIGRANTS INTEGRATED INTO POLITICS OF THEIR HOST COUNTRIES? UH… MANY PEOPLE WHO DO RESEARCH ON EUROPEAN
IMMIGRATION ARE HAVING SOMETHING– UH, USING SOMETHING CALLED
“IMAGINED COMMUNITIES” THEORY, RIGHT? IMAGINED COMMUNITIES THEORY
IS BASICALLY SAYING THAT ALL OF US BELONG
TO IMAGINED COMMUNITIES, RIGHT? LET’S SAY THAT ALL OF US
BELONG TO A COMMUNITY WHO LISTEN TO A CERTAIN
KIND OF MUSIC, ALL RIGHT? ALL OF US BELONG TO A COMMUNITY THAT
PRACTICES A CERTAIN RELIGION, RIGHT? UH, ALL OF US BELONG TO A COMMUNITY
THAT HAS CERTAIN VALUES TOWARDS THE GOVERNMENT, RIGHT,
OR CERTAIN POLITICAL VALUES, RIGHT? ALL OF US BELONG TO A COMMUNITY,
PERHAPS, OF STUDENTS, RIGHT? MANY ANTHROPOLOGISTS–
AND MY COLLEAGUE DYLAN MAY CORRECT ME– BUT MANY ANTHROPOLOGISTS THINK IN TERMS
OF THESE IMAGINED COMMUNITIES, RIGHT, BECAUSE HOW DO YOU DECIDE
WHETHER TO ACCEPT A CERTAIN PERSON
IN THE COMMUNITY OR NOT, RIGHT, IT DEPENDS ON THE VALUES
OF THE COMMUNITY YOU BELONG TO, RIGHT? SOME COMMUNITIES ARE MORE
INCLUSIVE THAN OTHERS, RIGHT? BUT THE BASIC PREMISE IS THAT WE HUMANS
ARE SOCIAL CREATURES, RIGHT, AND WE NEED PEOPLE
AROUND US. WE NEED TO BELONG TO SOMETHING,
TO COMMUNITY, RIGHT? WHEN ERICH FROMM, A FAMOUS
GERMAN SOCIOLOGIST AND PHILOSOPHER WROTE HIS FAMOUS BOOK,
“ESCAPE FROM FREEDOM,” HE’S SAYING, “WELL, FREEDOM
IS JUST NOT BELONGING TO ANYTHING,” AND PEOPLE DON’T LIKE THAT. PEOPLE DON’T LIKE FREEDOM
OF NOT BELONGING TO ANYTHING. (laughing)
SO, WE WANT– I MEAN, I CANNOT JUST STAND
IN FRONT OF THE MIRROR EVERY MORNING AND SAY, “OH, I’M GREAT,”
WHICH I USUALLY DO, RIGHT? (audience laughing)
I’M GREAT. I MEAN, I NEED OTHERS
TO TELL ME I’M GREAT, TOO, RIGHT? I NEED APPROVAL
FROM OTHERS, RIGHT? SO, I IMAGINE THAT I BELONG
TO A CERTAIN COMMUNITY. THIS IS MY–
THIS IS WHAT MAKES ME SANE. THIS IS WHAT MAKES
ALL OF US SANE AND ALIVE, THAT WE IMAGINE THAT WE BELONG
TO CERTAIN COMMUNITIES, RIGHT? AND MICHAEL WALZER,
ANTHROPOLOGIST, THINKS THAT THERE ARE TWO TYPES
OF MORALITIES THAT COMMUNITIES HAVE. ONE, UH… ONE MORALITY IS SOMETHING
CALLED “THICK MORALITY,” RIGHT, AND ANOTHER MORALITY IS SOMETHING
CALLED “THIN MORALITY.” LET ME EXPLAIN THIS, HOPEFULLY,
ON THE BASIS OF PICTURES. DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHERE
THIS PICTURE IS COMING FROM?>>TIANANMEN SQUARE.
>>TIANANMEN SQUARE. THAT’S 1989, RIGHT? THERE’S A STUDENT DEMONSTRATION. STUDENT DEMONSTRATIONS
WHO WANTED, BASICALLY… POLITICAL REFORMS
IN THE COUNTRY OF CHINA, RIGHT? THIS GUY IS TRYING
TO STOP THE TANKS. HE IS JUST STANDING
IN FRONT OF A TANK… AND THIS GUY IS TRYING
TO STOP THE TANKS THAT ARE BASICALLY DRIVING TOWARDS
TIANANMEN SQUARE TO QUELL THE REBELLION, TO CRUSH IT,
WHICH THEY SUCCEEDED IN, RIGHT? WHEN YOU LOOK AT THESE PHOTOS, CAN YOU
UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THESE PHOTOS? IF YOU COULD TELL ME THE MEANING OF THESE PHOTOS
IN JUST TWO OR THREE WORDS?>>DEFIANCE.
>>DEFIANCE– VERY GOOD. FIGHT BETWEEN–
OR STRUGGLE BETWEEN…>>(indistinct speaking).
>>I’M SORRY?>>(indistinct speaking).
>>GOOD! STRUGGLE BETWEEN
GOOD AND EVIL, RIGHT? STRUGGLE BETWEEN– YES?
>>UNDERDOG IN POWER.>>VERY GOOD, YES. UNDERDOG IN POWER. STRUGGLE BETWEEN LIBERTY
AND…>>OPPRESSION.
>>OPPRESSION. VERY GOOD, YES. WOULD YOU AGREE THAT… WOULD YOU AGREE
THAT ALL OF US– ALL HUMANS, REGARDLESS
OF WHERE THEY LIVE IN THE WORLD, COULD UNDERSTAND THE MEANING
OF THIS PHOTO WITHOUT MANY WORDS? HOW MANY OF YOU SAY “YES”–
RAISE YOUR HAND. YEAH. YES. MOST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD WOULD BE ABLE
TO UNDERSTAND THE MEANING OF THIS PHOTO, REGARDLESS OF WHAT CULTURE
THEY BELONG TO, RIGHT? YES? YES? THAT’S ACCORDING TO WALZER’S
“THIN MORALITY,” RIGHT? THE FACT THAT PEOPLE
FROM DIFFERENT CULTURES CAN UNDERSTAND THE MEANING
OF THAT PHOTO MEANS THAT THIS KIND OF MORALITY,
THIS KIND OF VALUES, THE VALUES OF FREEDOM
VERSUS OPPRESSION, THE VALUE OF POWER AGAINST OUTSIDER–
WEAKNESS OR WHATEVER, RIGHT, IS EASILY SPREAD–
IT’S THIN, RIGHT? PEOPLE FROM ALL CULTURES
CAN UNDERSTAND IT, RIGHT? THAT’S WHAT THIN MORALITY MEANS. PEOPLE– AND– FOR ALL CULTURES
ARE GONNA UNDERSTAND IT, RIGHT? LOOK AT THIS–
WHAT IS THIS?>>(indistinct speaking).
>>CHRISTMAS TREE, RIGHT? LOOK AT THIS–
I HAVE MOUNTAIN DEW. I DON’T KNOW– I JUST–
(laughing) THAT’S MOUNTAIN DEW CHRISTMAS TREE, RIGHT?
(audience chuckling) WHEN YOU LOOK AT
THE CHRISTMAS TREE, DOES IT BRING MEMORIES?
(audience agrees) YEAH. DOES IT BRING STORIES?
(audience agrees) YES. DOES IT BRING WARMTH?
(audience agrees) WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE IN THE CULTURES
WHO DO NOT CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS? WHEN THEY LOOK AT
THE CHRISTMAS TREE, DO THEY HAVE THE SAME FEELINGS
LIKE YOU GUYS HAVE? NO. I MEAN, CHRISTMAS CAN BE ONLY UNDERSTOOD
IN TERMS OF THE STORIES THAT IT INVOKES,
RIGHT, IN THE CULTURES THAT CELEBRATE
THAT HOLIDAY IN A POSITIVE WAY, RIGHT? THAT’S WHAT
WALZER WOULD BE– AN EXAMPLE OF THICK MORALITY,
BECAUSE… CHRISTMAS IS NOT EASILY SHARED
WITH CULTURES WHO DO NOT– WHO DO NOT CELEBRATE IT,
RIGHT? THIS PICTURE ABOUT– THIS PICTURE ABOUT
FIGHT BETWEEN LIBERTY AND OPPRESSION IS EASILY SHARED, RIGHT? EVERYBODY–
ALMOST EVERY– IF I WAS DOING THIS PRESENTATION
IN JOHANNESBURG, SOUTH AFRICA, RIGHT, PEOPLE WOULD SAY, “OH, WELL,
THAT’S OPPRESSION VERSUS LIBERTY,” RIGHT? AND IF I PUT IT HERE, THEY WOULD SAY,
“OKAY, WELL, IT’S CHRISTMAS. “WE’VE HEARD ABOUT IT, BUT…”
(laughing) BUT WHAT, RIGHT? THE THICK MORALITY. THICK MORALITY IS BASICALLY
MORALITY THAT IS JUST SO THICK IT’S REALLY DIFFICULT
TO SPREAD IT TOWARDS PEOPLE WHO ARE OUTSIDE
OF THE CULTURE, RIGHT? YES. SO, UH… THE REAL QUESTION
IS HERE… LET ME PUT THE RIGHT SLIDE. THE REAL QUESTION
IS HERE– WHO IS ENTITLED TO BELONG TO
THE SACRED COMMUNITY, RIGHT? MOST OF THE– SOME OF YOU
MENTIONED NATIONALISM AT THE BEGINNING
OF THIS LECTURE, RIGHT? NATIONALISM IS BASICALLY
A THICK MORALITY, RIGHT? NATIONALISM IS SAYING– OR THIS NOTION
THAT WE SHOULD GIVE PREFERENCE– IN EMPLOYMENT POLICIES,
FOR EXAMPLE, RIGHT? THAT THEY SHOULD GIVE
PREFERENCE TO OUR OWN– TO MEMBERS OF OUR OWN COMMUNITY,
RIGHT? THIS KIND OF SET OF VALUES
IS THICK. IT’S NOT SPREAD–
WE DON’T– WE ARE SAYING WE DO NOT WANT
TO SPREAD THE BLESSINGS OF… (laughing) THIS COUNTRY TO OTHERS
IF YOU DON’T REALLY HAVE TO, RIGHT? (laughing)
ALTHOUGH, GEORGE BUSH MAY DISAGREE AND GO TO IRAQ TO DO IT, RIGHT?
(audience chuckling) RIGHT? WALZER– THE IMAGINED COMMUNITIES
BECOME RELEVANT TO PEOPLE IF THEY OFFER ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
THAT MODERN POLITICAL IDEOLOGIES DO NOT ANSWER, SUCH AS QUESTIONS
ABOUT LIFE, DEATH, AND CONTINUITY, RIGHT? I MEAN, ALL OF US… LIVE FAIRLY SANE LIVES
IF WE HAVE GOOD STORIES, RIGHT? (laughing)
WE KNOW HOW DID WE COME TO THIS WORLD, WHAT KIND OF COMMUNITY WE BELONG TO,
WHAT IS THE MEANING OF LIFE AND DEATH. IF WE ARE RELIGIOUS PEOPLE,
WE THINK, “WELL, DEATH CERTAINLY
HAS SOME MEANING,” RIGHT? AND THINGS LIKE THAT,
RIGHT? BUT THIS…
THESE STORIES ARE CRUCIAL. SO, PEOPLE WHO DO NOT SHARE
THESE STORIES WITH US, RIGHT… ARE EXCLUDED, RIGHT? FOR US, FOR MANY AMERICANS
AND MANY WESTERNERS, THE COUNTRY IS SACRED. WE THINK OF OUR COUNTRY
AS A SACRED COMMUNITY. SO, THE REAL QUESTION HERE IS,
HOW DO WE BASICALLY… SAY WHO IS ENTITLED TO BELONG
TO THIS SACRED COMMUNITY OF OURS, IF YOU SUBSCRIBE
TO NATIONALISM, WHICH MANY PEOPLE
IN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES DO, RIGHT? MANY PEOPLE IN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES
ARE SAYING, “WHY WOULD THOSE PEOPLE
WITH THE DIFFERENT RELIGIONS “AND DIFFERENT SKIN COLORS
COME TO OUR COUNTRY “AND RUIN WHATEVER WE HAVE BEEN
BUILDING FOR CENTURIES AND CENTURIES?” RIGHT? THESE STORIES ABOUT LIFE AND DEATH
AND HOLY DAYS THAT WE CHERISH AND FOOD THAT WE EAT
AND THE WAY WE PRAY, THE WAY WE THINK
ABOUT LIFE– WHY WOULD THESE PEOPLE COME AND
BASICALLY UNDERMINE THAT, RIGHT? AND, UH… THIS IS STRONGLY CONNECTED IN TERMS
OF HOW PEOPLE IN EUROPE BELIEVE– WHETHER PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT IMMIGRANTS–
NON-EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS– SHOULD BE INTEGRATED
INTO POLITICAL PROCESS OR NOT. IF YOU THINK THAT… IF YOU HOLD YOUR COUNTRY SACRED,
IF EUROPEAN– THOSE EUROPEANS WHO HOLD
THEIR COUNTRY SACRED, WHO THINK OF THEIR COUNTRY
AS A SACRED COMMUNITY WITH CERTAIN SET
OF STRONG CULTURAL VALUES, THEY’RE NOT VERY WELL-INCLINED TO ALLOW
TO THINK THAT NON-EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS SHOULD BE INCLUDED
INTO THE POLITICAL PROCESS. THOSE WHO ARE MORE
COSMOPOLITAN, WHO BASICALLY SHARE THIS VALUE
OF THIN MORALITY, RIGHT, THOSE WHO ARE SAYING, “OKAY,
MAYBE OUR COMMUNITY’S NOT THAT SACRED. “MAYBE WORLD IS MORE SACRED
THAN THE COUNTRY,” RIGHT? (laughing)
OR MAYBE INDIVIDUAL HUMAN IS MORE SACRED
THAN THE COMMUNITY, RIGHT? THOSE ARE MORE INCLINED TO THINK
THAT IMMIGRANTS SHOULD BE ACCEPTED. EXAMPLE OF ITALY, RIGHT? AND WHY DID I CHOOSE
THE EXAMPLE OF ITALY? BECAUSE MOST OF THE IMMIGRANTS–
MUSLIM IMMIGRANTS FROM NORTHERN AFRICA– ARE GOING TO ITALY,
RIGHT? LOOK AT THE NUMBERS. I MEAN, THE NUMBER OF IMMIGRANTS–
NON-EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS– TRIPLES IN ITALY BETWEEN ’91 AND 2001,
AND DOUBLED BY 2007. CURRENTLY, THERE ARE 4.2 MILLION
NON-EUROPEAN IMMIGRANTS– PEOPLE FROM OUTSIDE OF EUROPE,
MOSTLY AFRICAN MUSLIMS, RIGHT– IN ITALY. THAT’S SEVEN PERCENT
OF THE POPULATION, RIGHT? THAT BASICALLY POWERED
THE NORTHERN LEAGUE. THE NORTHERN LEAGUE
IS NOT A NAZI PARTY. THE NORTHERN LEAGUE
IS A POLITICAL PARTY… WHICH BASICALLY ADVOCATES THE SEPARATION
BETWEEN NORTH AND SOUTH ITALY, RIGHT? SOUTH ITALY IS THE PLACE
WHERE MOST OF THESE IMMIGRANTS FROM AFRICA COME, RIGHT? NORTHERN LEAGUE WANTS
TO BASICALLY PREVENT… THE UNDERMINING
OF TRADITIONAL ITALIAN CULTURE. (laughing) AS THEY SAID,
“CLEANLINESS OF ITALY. “KEEP ITALY TIDY,”
THEY ARE SAYING, RIGHT? IN ITALIAN, OF COURSE. AND HOW CAN WE KEEP
ITALY TIDY? WHAT THE NORTHERN LEAGUE IS SAYING,
“WELL, WHAT WE WANT TO DO “IS BASICALLY TO SEPARATE
THE NORTH FROM THE SOUTH,” SO THAT THE NORTH IS THIS NICE, TIDY PLACE
FOR THE WHITES, UPPER MIDDLE CLASS, RIGHT, AND THE SOUTH
IS THIS DIRTY PLACE, RIGHT, FULL OF POOR IMMIGRANTS
FROM AFRICA. REMEMBER THAT WALL IN PADUA,
YES? THAT’S A SYMBOL OF THAT
KIND OF THINKING, RIGHT? FRANCE IS ALSO
A VERY INTERESTING COUNTRY. FRANCE IS INTERESTING
BECAUSE DESPITE… SO MANY ATTEMPTS… TO CRUSH IMMIGRATION INTO FRANCE,
IMMIGRATION IS– FRANCE STILL DOES
NOT HAVE ANY QUOTAS, DOES NOT LIMIT THE AMOUNT
OF IMMIGRANTS, DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE IN TERMS
OF THEIR RACIAL OR ETHNIC BACKGROUNDS OR NATIONAL BACKGROUNDS,
RIGHT? AND DESPITE
ALL THE ATTEMPTS TO CRUSH IMMIGRATION
INTO FRANCE, SINCE 1950s, THE NUMBERS HAVE NEVER DROPPED
BELOW 100,000 ANNUALLY. I MEAN, THE UNITED STATES
RECEIVES 360,000– 360,000 IMMIGRANTS
PER YEAR LEGALLY, RIGHT? BUT THE UNITED STATES
HAS SIX TIMES MORE PEOPLE… (chuckling)
AND IT’S 20 TIMES LARGER… (laughing)
THAN FRANCE. FRANCE RECEIVES
100,000 A YEAR. NOW MORE–
170,000 LAST YEAR, ACTUALLY. RIGHT? IT BASICALLY FORBADE
MUSLIM GIRLS TO WEAR HIJAB, THE SCARF AROUND THE… THE SCARF AROUND
THE HEAD… IN ORDER TO SAY
“EVERYBODY’S FRENCH, “AND WE CANNOT BASICALLY CONNECT
CHURCH AND STATE IN SCHOOLS,” RIGHT? IT IS TRYING TO FORBID,
IN MANY WAYS– IT IS TRYING TO FORBID,
IN MANY WAYS… FREE LABOR MARKET
FOR IMMIGRANTS, RIGHT? IT IS ALSO– THE FRANCE IS ALSO BASICALLY
REQUIRING EVERY IMMIGRANT TO– EVERY LEGAL IMMIGRANT WHO COMES TO FRANCE
TO GIVE ALLEGIANCE TO FRENCH REPUBLIC. IF YOU GO TO–
IF YOU GO TO FRANCE AND YOU ARE A SOCIOLOGICAL
RESEARCHER AND YOU ASK FRENCH GOVERNMENT
TO GIVE YOU DATA ABOUT THE NATIONALITY
OF IMMIGRANTS– NATIONAL ORIGINS
OF IMMIGRANTS IN FRANCE– THEY ARE GOING TO TELL YOU,
“WE DON’T HAVE IT. “EVERYBODY’S FRENCH IN FRANCE.”
(laughing) YOU’RE FROM ALGERIA,
YOU’RE FROM MOROCCO… (laughing) YOU’RE FROM ANY NUMBER
OF FORMER FRENCH COLONIES, RIGHT? “WE DON’T HAVE THAT DATA. “EVERYBODY’S FRENCH. “WHY ARE YOU ASKING US
ABOUT THAT?” YOU HAVE TO, BASICALLY, IMMEDIATELY
AND WITHIN THE FIRST MONTH OF BECOMING A LEGAL FRENCH IMMIGRANT,
YOU HAVE TO– PERMANENT RESIDENT
FROM ABROAD– FROM– YEAH, EITHER FROM EUROPEAN
OR NON-EUROPEAN COUNTRY, YOU HAVE TO PLEDGE YOUR ALLEGIANCE
TO FRANCE, RIGHT? WHY IS THAT? I THINK MANY RESEARCHERS
ARE SAYING, “THAT’S BECAUSE FRANCE
STILL HAS THESE STRONG… “REPUBLICAN…
PRINCIPLES.” WHEN I SAY “REPUBLICAN,”
I DO NOT MEAN THE REPUBLICAN PARTY. I MEAN PRINCIPLES OF EGALITE,
FRATERNITE, AND LIBERTE, RIGHT? EGALITE, FRATERNITE, AND LIBERTE,
DESPITE SO MANY ATTEMPTS IN FRANCE TO BASICALLY… REDUCE THE IMMIGRATION
BECAUSE OF ECONOMIC CRISIS, BECAUSE OF CULTURAL REASONS. IN 1981, FRENCH PRESIDENT MITTERRAND
SAID THAT EVERY COUNTRY HAS AN “IMMIGRATION TIPPING POINT,”
RIGHT? THIS IMMIGRATION TIPPING POINT
MEANS THAT AFTER THAT TIPPING POINT, FOREIGN PEOPLE IN YOUR COUNTRY,
BASICALLY, CAUSE… CAUSE…
XENOPHOBIA, RIGHT? CAUSE HATRED, CAUSE VIOLENCE,
AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. SO, I WOULD SAY THAT BOTH ITALY
AND FRANCE ARE TRYING, BASICALLY, TO, UH… PRACTICE THIN MORALITY,
MORALITY OF INCLUSIVENESS, RIGHT? DESPITE ALL THE NATIONALIST FORCES
THAT ARE IN BOTH ITALY AND FRANCE, WHICH ARE HIGHLY
IMMIGRATION COUNTRIES IN EUROPE. THEY ARE BOTH TRYING TO PRACTICE–
ITALY, FOR EXAMPLE, LAST YEAR, GRANTED PERMANENT RESIDENCE
AND CITIZENSHIP TO OVER 2 MILLION
IMMIGRANTS WHO HAVE LIVED THERE MORE
THAN FIVE YEARS, RIGHT? AND FRANCE, AS ALREADY MENTIONED,
DESPITE ALL THIS– DESPITE MANY ATTEMPTS TO CRUSH IMMIGRATION
FROM NON-EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, IT’S STILL GOING
VERY STRONG, IN TERMS OF HOW MANY
PEOPLE IT ACCEPTS. AND NEITHER ITALY NOR FRANCE
HAVE ANY QUOTAS OR ANY KIND OF RACIAL
AND ETHNIC DISCRIMINATION IN THAT PARTICULAR SENSE. RIGHT? SO, UH… ONCE AGAIN, EUROPE IS STRUGGLING
TO RESOLVE THIS TENSION BETWEEN THE NEEDS
TO HAVE IMMIGRANTS AND THIS FEAR THAT IT HAS
FROM THESE IMMIGRANTS, AND THESE ARE SOME OF THE ATTEMPTS
TO SOLVE THAT TENSION. THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION.
(applause) I’LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER
ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE.>>IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION,
JUST RAISE YOUR HAND SO I CAN BRING THE MICROPHONE
OVER TO WHERE YOU ARE AND WE’LL CAPTURE IT
ON THE TAPE.>>I HAVE A QUESTION. I’M WONDERING HOW DID COMMUNISM
AFFECT THE EUROPEAN UNION?>>WHAT DO YOU MEAN?
>>THE… BASICALLY, HOW RUSSIA
TOOK OVER MOST OF EASTERN EUROPE. HOW DID THAT AFFECT
THE COUNTRIES? WERE THEY KICKED OUT?
>>IN TERMS OF IMMIGRATION, OR IN…?>>YEAH. AND JUST JOINING
THE UNION… OR WERE COUNTRIES
EXCLUDED?>>MOST OF THE COUNTRIES
IN THE FORMER EAST BLOC, THAT USED TO BE UNDER
THE RUSSIAN INFLUENCE AND CONTROL, MOST OF THESE COUNTRIES ARE TODAY
IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, RIGHT? YOU HAVE ALL THE BALTIC COUNTRIES
IN THE EUROPEAN UNION, YOU HAVE ALL THE EASTERN EUROPEAN
COUNTRIES IN THE EUROPEAN UNION. MOST OF THESE COUNTRIES WHO
ARE NOW IN THE EUROPEAN UNION AND ARE FROM EASTERN EUROPE
SEE THE RUSSIAN RULE AS JUST A BLIP ON THE RADAR,
RIGHT? JUST A VERY SHORT–
IT WAS ONLY 50 YEARS, RIGHT? AND 50 YEARS, FOR MANY
OF THESE COUNTRIES, IS A FAIRLY SHORT
AMOUNT OF TIME, RIGHT? ALL OF THESE COUNTRIES
HAVE ALWAYS CLAIMED THAT THEY CULTURALLY
BELONG TO THE WEST, RIGHT? SO, JOINING THE EUROPEAN UNION
FOR MANY EAST EUROPEAN COUNTRIES WAS NOT ONLY NECESSARY
FOR ECONOMIC REASONS, RIGHT? I THINK PERHAPS SOME OF THEM
WOULD EVEN FARE BETTER ECONOMICALLY IF THEY DIDN’T JOIN, RIGHT? BUT THAT’S ANOTHER STORY,
RIGHT? BUT IT’S PRIMARILY
CULTURAL REASONS, RIGHT? SO, BEFORE THESE COUNTRIES
JOINED THE EUROPEAN UNION, THEY HAD A SITUATION IN EASTERN EUROPE
IN WHICH ALL POLITICAL PARTIES AGREED ABOUT ONE THING… JOINING THE EUROPEAN UNION.
(laughing) BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE SO TIRED
OF OPPRESSION OF THE CULTURE THEY SEE FOREIGN TO THEIR VALUES,
WHICH IS SOVIET UNION, RIGHT? COMMUNISTS’ CULTURE, RIGHT? THAT THEY BASICALLY WANTED
TO PROVED TO THEMSELVES THAT THEY ARE WORTHY
OF THE WEST. THEY ARE BASICALLY JOINING–
UH, EASTERN EUROPEAN COUNTRIES, WHEN THEY JOINED THE EUROPEAN UNION,
THEY FELT LIKE THEY’RE COMING HOME. RIGHT? BECAUSE THEY ALWAYS SAID
THEY WERE PART OF THE WEST BEFORE. RUSSIANS WERE THERE FOR 50 YEARS,
AND NOW IT’S FINALLY OVER, RIGHT? BUT WE WERE– THEY WERE SAYING–
CZECH REPUBLIC, HUNGARY– THEY WERE SAYING, “OH, WE WERE PART
OF AUSTRO-HUNGARIAN EMPIRE FOR 100 YEARS, “SO WHAT IS 50 YEARS?”
(laughing) IN TERMS OF THE SOVIET UNION. SO, IT WAS BASICALLY
EVEN MORE IMPORTANT– VERY IMPORTANT FOR THEM
TO JOIN MORE CULTURALLY THAN EVEN ECONOMICALLY
OR POLITICALLY, RIGHT? BECAUSE THEY WERE–
BEFORE THEY JOINED, THEY WERE ALREADY
ECONOMICALLY INTEGRATED, SO NOTHING MUCH
GETS CHANGED. BUT CULTURALLY CHANGED– PEOPLE
STARTED TO FEEL THAT THEY BELONG. THEY FINALLY ARE IN THE PLACE
THEY BELONG TO, RIGHT? YEAH, THERE IS ONE
IN THE BACK.>>UM, MY QUESTION IS, UH… WITH THE EMERGENCE
OF A LOT OF ORGANIZATIONS– THESE INTERGOVERNMENTAL,
INTERNATIONAL ORGANIZATIONS LIKE THE U.N. AND THE EUROPEAN UNION– UM, DO YOU SEE–
GLOBALLY-SPEAKING– PEOPLE MOVING TOWARDS
LESS OF… MAYBE MORE ORGANIZATION
AS A WHOLE IN THE FUTURE? KIND OF MOVING AWAY FROM
THE UNITED STATES AND RUSSIA, AND KINDA MOVING ON TO MORE OF A GLOBAL–
KIND OF A GLOBAL MINDSET? AND IF THAT’S THE CASE,
DO YOU THINK THE LOSS OF CULTURE AND THE ACCEPTANCE OF, LIKE, THESE–
WHAT DID YOU CALL THEM– THE THIN–>>THIN MORALITY.
>>YEAH, THE THIN MORALITY. PEOPLE MOVING MORE TOWARDS
THE THIN MORALITY? DO YOU THINK
THAT’S HAPPENING? AND ALSO, DO YOU THINK THAT LOSING
CULTURAL VALUES COULD BE A POSITIVE THING OR A NEGATIVE THING? ‘CAUSE THAT DOES KEEP US
TOGETHER AS A PEOPLE AND GIVES US THAT FOUNDATION,
PSYCHOLOGICALLY, TO HAVE UNION
BETWEEN EACH OTHER. BUT ALSO, IT CREATES A DIVIDE,
SOMETIMES, AND GIVES US A REASON
TO PUT UP THOSE WALLS. SO, COULD THAT BE–
I GUESS, DO YOU SEE THAT AS A POSITIVE OR A NEGATIVE,
LOSING THAT IN THE LONG-TERM? AND ALSO, DO YOU THINK THAT’S
WHAT THE WORLD IS MOVING TOWARDS– A LOT OF THESE NATIONS–
MORE OF AN OPEN THING AND LESS OF A “THIS IS MY NATION,”
YOU KNOW, LESS OF A CLOSED-MINDED MINDSET.>>OH, OKAY, THANK YOU. THAT’S A VERY COMPLICATED QUESTION,
ACTUALLY. TAKE ME HALF AN HOUR TO ANSWER ALL THAT.
(laughing) DO I SEE PEOPLE MOVING TOWARDS
A GLOBAL MINDSET OR A THIN MORALITY? I DON’T THINK SO, NO. I WOULD SAY THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE
IN THE– ESPECIALLY– ECONOMIC CRISIS, THEY MOVE MUCH MORE TOWARDS
THE THICK MORALITY BECAUSE THEY WANT TO– NATURALLY,
THEY WANT TO PROTECT THEIR GROUP FROM THE INTRUSION OF OTHERS
WHO ARE THERE, PERHAPS– WE THINK THAT THEY ARE THERE
TO TAKE AWAY OUR LIVELIHOOD, OUR WELL-BEING, OUR GOOD LIFE,
AND SO ON AND SO FORTH, RIGHT? IMMANUEL KANT WROTE
“IN PERPETUAL PEACE”– THAT’S HIS FAMOUS
SHORT BOOK WHERE HE WAS ARGUING FOR,
BASICALLY, ABOLISHMENT OF STATES,
RIGHT? HE THOUGHT THAT IF PEOPLE
ABOLISHED STATES, THAT ALL WARS WOULD STOP BECAUSE
WHO WAGES WARS BUT STATES, RIGHT? SO, IF YOU DIDN’T HAVE STATES,
WE WOULDN’T HAVE WARS, RIGHT? BUT HE– EVEN HE RECOG–
IDEALLY, HE SAID, “I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THE WORLD
WITHOUT GOVERNMENTS AT ALL,” RIGHT? SO, THE WORLD WOULD
JUST BE IN ONE HUGE SPACE WHERE WE WOULD JUST FREELY MOVE
FROM ONE PLACE TO THE OTHER, RIGHT? BUT HE ALSO RECOGNIZED
THAT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT MOST PEOPLE
WOULD NOT ACCEPT, SO HE SORT OF PROPOSED
A COMPROMISE AND SAID, “INSTEAD OF JUST
ABOLISHING STATES TOTAL, “LET’S HAVE ONE WORLD STATE,”
RIGHT? BUT THE ORGANIZATIONS
THAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, SUCH AS UNITED NATIONS, FOR EXAMPLE,
IS NOT A WORLD STATE, RIGHT? IT’S JUST A COLLECTION
OF COUNTRIES, RIGHT? AND AS A COLLECTION
OF COUNTRIES– I MEAN, YOU SEE WHAT’S HAPPENING WITH
SYRIA AND THE UNITED NATIONS, RIGHT? SOME COUNTRIES ARE FOR TOUGHER SANCTIONS,
OTHERS ARE AGAINST IT, RIGHT, BUT THERE IS NO– THE UNITED NATIONS
AS A WHOLE, RIGHT, CANNOT SAY– CANNOT ORDER THESE COUNTRIES
WHAT TO DO, RIGHT? SO, IF CERTAIN COUNTRIES ARE AGAINST
CERTAIN ACTIONS OF AN ORGANIZATION IN THE UNITED NATIONS,
THEY CAN DEFINITELY BE AGAINST IT. EUROPEAN UNION
IS A BIT DIFFERENT. EUROPEAN UNION HAS
A COMMON CURRENCY. MOST COUNTRIES ARE
IN THAT COMMON CURRENCY. IT HAS COMMON
BORDER POLICIES, RIGHT? SO, IF YOU, FOR EXAMPLE,
WANT TO IMMIGRATE INTO EUROPEAN UNION FOR POLITICAL REASONS– YOU DON’T LIKE
WHAT’S HAPPENING IN YOUR COUNTRY– THEN THE FIRST COUNTRY
IN WHICH– THE FIRST SAFE COUNTRY IN WHICH YOU
IMMIGRATE HAS TO ACCEPT YOU, RIGHT? YOU CANNOT MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY
UNLESS YOU GET THE SPECIAL PERMIT, RIGHT? BUT IT’S STILL REALLY CULTURAL,
RIGHT? CULTURE IS STILL
A VERY STRONG FORCE. SO, I DON’T THINK THAT
THERE IS A CULTURE OF– THERE IS A GLOBALIZATION OF CULTURE
IN THAT PARTICULAR SENSE THAT THEY ARE ALL
BECOMING THE SAME. I DON’T THINK SO, NO. BECAUSE, I MEAN,
IN THE ’80s AND ’90s, THERE WERE A BUNCH OF AUTHORS
WHO WROTE ABOUT THE GLOBALIZATION AS AMERICANIZATION, RIGHT? THEY WERE GOING AROUND THE WORLD
AND SEEING YOUNG PEOPLE LISTENING TO AMERICAN MUSIC
AND ROCK AND ROLL– (chuckling)
NOT ROCK AND ROLL– WELL, YEAH. (laughing) AND ACCEPTING AMERICANS’ SORT OF
WAY OF LIFE, AND I DON’T KNOW. SOME YOUTH RADIO STATIONS
IN EUROPE, YOU CAN HEAR ANCHORS USING
A LOT OF AMERICANIZED WORDS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT I DON’T THINK
THAT THAT’S A SIGN OF A BIG FUNDAMENTAL CHANGE
OF CULTURE, RIGHT? I MEAN, I’M STILL CROATIAN,
AND BRITS WILL ALWAYS BE BRITS, AND FRENCH,
AND SO ON AND SO FORTH. SO, I THINK WE CAN– WE ARE ABLE
TO ACCEPT PARTS OF FOREIGN CULTURE AND THUS BECOME MORE CONNECTED
TOWARDS OTHERS, BUT WE’LL STILL DEEPLY BECOME– DEEPLY, BASICALLY,
REMAIN WHO WE ARE IN TERMS OF OUR PERSONAL HISTORY,
BACKGROUND, AND THINGS LIKE THAT,
RIGHT? I SEE THE YOUNGER GENERATIONS
IN CROATIA TODAY– THEIR VALUES– THEY ACCEPT SO-CALLED SPECIFICALLY
CROATIAN VALUES FROM THEIR PARENTS AND YOUNGER GENERATIONS
AND THINGS LIKE THAT. IT’S NOT SOMETHING–
THEY’RE NOT GLOBALIZED. THEY’RE GLOBALIZED IN TERMS
OF THE MUSIC THEY LISTEN TO, THEY’RE GLOBALIZED IN TERMS OF COMPUTER
MACHINES THEY USE, AND THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT THEY’RE NOT GLOBALIZED IN THE SENSE
OF HOW THEY SEE THE WORLD, RIGHT? FOR EXAMPLE, THIS… CRAZY DISCUSSION ABOUT
THE CONSTITUTIONALITY OF HEALTHCARE LAW
IN THE PAST FEW DAYS. FOR US, THAT’S TOTALLY
NON-UNDERSTANDABLE. WHY WOULD YOU WANT
TO DISCUSS PERSONAL LIBERTY WHEN THE HEALTH OF PEOPLE
IS AT STAKE? (laughing)
I MEAN, THAT’S– REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH
AMERICAN MUSIC I LISTEN TO, THAT’S SOMETHING THAT I CAN
INTELLECTUALLY UNDERSTAND BUT I CANNOT IDENTIFY WITH IT,
NEITHER CAN I EMOTIONALLY ACCEPT IT. SO, I THINK WE ARE ABLE,
AS HUMANS, TO ACCEPT LITTLE PARTS
AND BITS OF CULTURE, BUT IT DOESN’T CHANGE FUNDAMENTALLY
WHO, CULTURALLY, WE ARE, SO…>>WHAT ABOUT IN THE LONG-TERM,
THOUGH? I MEAN, ASSUMING NOTHING–
>>WELL, AS A K–>>NOTHING CHANGE (indistinct speaking)–
>>(laughing).>>AND WE CAN MOVE
ALONG THIS PATH–>>YES, AS STEVE’S FAVORITE ECONOMIST
SAID, “IN LONG-TERM, WE ARE ALL DEAD.” (laughing)
BUT– SECOND FAVORITE, SORRY. BUT I DON’T KNOW THE ANSWER
TO THIS QUESTION. SO FAR, I DON’T THINK THAT
HUMAN CULTURAL EVOLUTION BASICALLY GAVE US A REASON THAT
ANYTHING WOULD FUNDAMENTALLY CHANGE IN THE FUTURE,
BUT I– IN THE SENSE OF OUR BEING
MORE TOTALLY THIN AS OPPOSED
TO TOTALLY THICK. AS JETHRO TULL WOULD SAY,
“THICK AS A BRICK.” (laughing)
BUT, UH… BUT I DON’T KNOW. I DON’T KNOW THE ANSWER
ABOUT 10,000 YEARS. I DON’T– I KNOW THAT I WOULD
PRETTY MUCH SAFELY BET ON THE ANSWER, “NO,”
IN THE FORESEEABLE FUTURE.

12 comments on “Race and Ethnicity: Politics of Immigration in the European Union

  1. The Netherlands and Belgium are just as crowded as Japan or Taiwan, but nobody says Japan or Taiwan will solve this RACE problem by bringing in millions of third worlders and quote assimilating unquote with them.

    Eastern Europe is Dirt Poor. Yet Eastern Europe is regularly asked when they will be ready for this immigration. Why is Eastern Europe supposed to be “ready for this immigration” and not Japan?

    It's because they are White. anti-racist as well all know is a code word for anti-White.

  2. Raphael Lemkin was the lawyer who COINED THE TERM GENOCIDE from the root words genos (Greek for family,tribe, or race) and -cide (Latin for killing).
    Raphael Lemkin stated that the objectives of a plan for committing genocide of a particular group would INCLUDE " disintegration of the political & social institutions of culture, language,national feelings,religion & the economic existence of national groups ".
    Today this is happening to Europe and to all European founded nations!

  3. Article 2, Part (c) of the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide from 1948 defines genocide as:
    (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group CONDITIONS OF LIFE calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
    3rd-World-Immigration, Assimila­tion, Integration & Diversity programs target White Nations & ONLY White Nations!
    All of these programs ULTIMATELY lead to White GENOCIDE !

  4. Nobody expects Japanese in Japan to accept the RIDICULOUS LIE, that Zulu's are Japanese.
    Nobody expects Zulus in Africa for speaking the RIDICULOUS LIE, that Japanese are Zulu's.
    ONLY in White countries are we expected to believe that Turks are Germans,Pakistani's are Englishmen and Vietnamese are Frenchmen…….
    ONLY White countries are expected to 'mix' out of existence !
    White people protesting this genocidal hypocrisy are called "racist"
    Anti-racist IS a code word for anti-White

  5. It's amazing with all his education how stupid he is. Someone should tell this idiot look what has happened to England and France. Rome fell because of race.
    Keep Italy–Italian.

  6. This guy looks really stupid . I hoped to listen something interesting though this didnt happen here . A good question is , if Europe need immigrants as professor claims then why European countries dont ask for workers ? Germany and other countries did it in the past when they needed working hands in the factories , though , today this is not happening . All those "immigrants" arrive illegally with the help of human traffickers and European countries just try to manage the situation .

  7. r u stupid? if white ppl mix then that means others r mixing tooo. does that not comprehend with ur thick head? n btw white population decline is mainly due to low births so that is your own problem.

  8. The Germans are rich because they work hard–not because of immigrants.
    And if I feel more comfortable with my own race, there is nothing wrong with that. I wish you the best and please wish me the best.

  9. Keep up the fight–Keep Europe white.
    Racist is a word used for emotion manipulation, not based on fact, logic, or reason, but on pure emotional and only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only, only on white people. Only white people are called racist.
    If a white person defends himself against a black, the white person is a racist. If a black attacks a white, the white is still a racist.

  10. Why is it that EVERY white country is forced to be multicultural/multiracial?
    Why is it that EVERY white country is told to end its own race/culture?
    No one asks that of ANY non-White country.
    Immigration/assimilation is FORCED upon ONLY White countries
    Anti-whites call themselves “anti-racists” but their actions lead to the elimination of only one race, the White race.
    The purpose of “anti-racism” is to genocide White children.
    Anti-racist is a code for anti-White

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