Scalable Blockchain For European Union? Lition Interview

Scalable Blockchain For European Union? Lition Interview


Hey guys and welcome back to Boxmining
today we have the guys from Lition and they are doing something really different in the blockchain space which is they built their own business around energy trading first
and then they went on to build their own blockchain to solve specific issues that
did crop up and that are necessary for adoption in the enterprise space. Kyeon
how did you come up with this idea what were you trying to solve so the vision
or the idea of Lition is basically bringing blockchain to business at
mass-market adoption that’s clears there and me and Richard we founded the
company in 2018 so basically when crypto had it’s like
all-time high and yeah white paper sold anything but real value and we knew back
then that by keeping it to the fundamentals of hard work we could
really make a difference so the journey started basically with our peer-to-peer
energy exchange from ethereum and well we initially tried to establish to to
convince establish utilities to work with us but the feedback was quite clear
they said they don’t want to put their customers at risk so we had to basically
found our own energy supplier applied for government license to sell
electricity in Germany so we could kind of prove that peer-to-peer energy
trading could actually work we had to get several licenses and we had to
onboard like more than 700 or I think it’s even more than 700 local grid
operators we had to set up operations customer service the billing department
the energy trading so everything really necessary to kind of like found a new
energy supplier so I can tell you also and we always emphasize that and
interviews it’s a lot of work to do so I think that it’s very an entire company
array has the craziness you know it is you know just to show everyone that
peer-to-peer energy trading is working so testing the idea is initially already
showed us a lot of things that were already in practice so meaning that
transactions fees on the etherium bloodstream were far too high I think we
had around about $50 sense that we have to pay a transaction and then we have
also this high amount of blog confirmation times which were well
beyond I don’t know 15 or even 20 seconds and imagine you know as a
customer you doing you will appear to be energy trade and
you have to wait like 20 seconds in order to get this confirmed on top of
that in made EU approved the GDPR which requires company to delete data once
customers are leaving the network are leaving the company
so obviously also reached already showing you that there is a big conflict
between this legislation on one hand and the blockchain technology on the other
hand which says that data shouldn’t be deleted so after conducting research
with our partners on different solutions and I can tell you there are a lot of
good solutions out there which we highly appreciate like off recorder doing good
things doing good things and loom for instance they are also doing great
things but became clear that there was no solution currently out that it truly
matches the requirements of a blockchain to get mass market adoption especially
from the business perspective and we knew back then that we had to make a
difference by truly bringing up a blockchain technology that can be
adapted from businesses at first so that’s basically where I was thing
started that’s awesome so you built your own business and you realized ok these
are the requirements that a business really needs instead of like having a
hypothetical of theoretical business this is like ok this is what we need and
then you came to design your own blockchain based on those requirements
so you have the idea of faster confirmation times cheaper transactions
and also you have something that we never discussed on this channel which is
deleting data for compliance with the European GDP our legislation what you’re
saying is that you can leave the hash that of the data so the the information
is deleted itself but the hash offer is still remaining but that’s the link is
severed so my biggest question here is like even if you sever a link what
prevents someone from making a backup of that link or the original data that is
meant to be deleted yeah so this works in privileged networks and whenever
someone wants to join the privileged network or an invite-only network and
they have to agree to Terms of Service and these are legally binding so towards
the legislature you could always prove whoever you give this data to your on
the space side and by the way one one point it is yes we’re always used to the
append only blockchain I’m being a tech guy I always born I was
believed in bitcoins due to the fact that you could not delete data the
problem is that we faced is once we got out of an MVP stage into the mass market
and into customers and revenues you immediately have the law for I Iman on
you and if you operate in the European Union and you operate with private data
like our case banking numbers personal data or your consumption I mean you just
have to delete it data if you don’t delete the data you are illegal and if
you operate illegally with a blockchain solution productions will always just be
there for the speculators and your one or two use cases but it will never
really reach the mass market adoption and that’s exactly why we founded Litton
and that’s why we said okay we might be tech enthusiasts we might really love
the block sir for what it is but unless we take one step further and find
creative solutions production will always be a solution for the nerves
but never for the masses right and you’re talking about a block seen as a
solution for the masses for mass general use and consumption then we always have
to compare it with traditional systems I mean why can’t you do energy trading on
say a centralized database why is Lydian a better solution for that
yeah with a centralized database you always have the problem so who runs the
network is it like the Amazon is it like the Google is it maybe government and
you all have your different challenges blockchain was successful because there
was no centralized Authority and I think that’s the key to peer-to-peer training
peer-to-peer only works if you don’t have a superior right now we had to
launch lithium with us being in with us being in the supplier role for legal
reasons because a couple of in the energy space you’re a couple of topics
that you just we just need a middleman and like paying the estate taxes for
example or making sure that the energies actually really purchased through the
power plant that still runs on old world systems I would say and but wait a
couple of years wait a couple of years until regulation advances then you can
then you can move all of these processes into the blockchain and that’s where we
are and ready to go with legit so obviously there’s a lot of block chains
out there and a lot of scaling solutions out there so
oh well actually makes little different why would other people jump on and use
the Lydian blushing yes we have a good technical solution but there were always
bigger technical solutions our solutions is battle-tested in business so our
energy use case now has customers from more than 100 cities that’s I would say
ready for mass mass market and our finance use case is really quite a large
Bank which has over one trillion assets under management and so I think it’s
it’s it’s not something that some tech startup did in the backyard it’s
something that is battle-tested in terms of business and applications as well so
what is the advantage of connecting to the lithium boxes there are any synergy
between companies that can’t connect together yeah so I mean and the good
thing about the aphelion blockchain is that is trusted by tens of thousands of
nodes so if you theorem says something is true it pretty much is true and and
that’s what we’re using so we’re had we had private side chains and also public
side chains but right the only private side chains in our test net where you
control private data on a chain but the cool thing is that this private age is
always synchronized to the mainland so to the etherium main net currently once
once a day so that means that if someone doesn’t really believe what’s happening
in this private side chain well it’s easy they just look into the ethereal
Network where we have where we anchor or notarize the data once a day so it can
actually prove that the side chain doesn’t go wrong mmm I see so you have
some sort of like it’s kind of like a check point and the phone is because
there is a cryptographic hash that’s kind of submitted you can actually
always verify that all that data is true now your own private side chain you have
many people working together so what is the functionality off the token in this
case what’s what do you need later on for licken is a it has two main uses one
of them is guess and so whenever you do a transaction to private by channel soon
also public side chain you unique guess and the second one is staking rewards
staking is just so much more efficient than proof of work and you know us being
an energy company and we only have green energy powerplants it would be
impossible to bring something to to do something for agreed
and then on the other hand waste so much processing power through some algorithm
exactly right so so you don’t have the irony there where you’re selling people
to mine and they mind because they want to buy energy hey how are you people who
come on – you’re blushing so are you doing hackathons or even doing a more
business approach where you approach big businesses and present to them solutions
for them not you well I would say primarily the business
our opinion is if you really want to have the mass market like millions of
transactions and millions of customers of course you can go to startups but we
think it’s a lot quicker and a lot also more visible and a lot it also
introduces larger if you have these large companies and here our partner s
ap the world’s biggest maker of business software is of course really helpful and
our advisor the chief technology officer and board member here Ludmila he’s also
very helpful to that because if you basically if one of the world’s largest
companies and the market cap is larger than Bitcoin for example and if we
cooperate with them and many of the ideas that we put into our blockchain
came from them I mean it really is a co innovation and that that gives you some
sort of trustworthiness which is of course very difficult to her but it
helps us a lot when it comes to business adoption so you recently did an ICO as
well so you actually did an IC o—- in 2019 which is kind of crazy if you think
about it because I still serve meant to be dead yeah good point we our public
sale was 2 million and we raised it within a few minutes so the first round
was I think 12 30 minutes the second one was 18 minutes we splitted into one
whitelist round one public surround and and you’re right it was the first public
sale and in the last half year so in the bear market which sold millions in
minutes we were really surprised ourself if we also could ask a little bit around
and now I think it came down to true to two points one of them is we earned a
white paper I see when our 2017 nice year over not a MVP I see oh that would
be a 2018 I see oh we’re a real revenue real customers with noticeable
adoption idea because I think that that has to be in place in 2019 blockchains
have grown up yeah and you know Richard mentioned there was two big constants I
would even mention mentioned a third one which is the community has observed what
we have done in the past and we were quite open and communicating what we
have done I think a third major cornerstone is also the fact that we are
closely working with the government too so meaning Richard for instance being
always engaged with the German government and trying to to to bring the
blockchain really into the adoption also from a governmental perspective and
these are these are the reasons why people really trust what Linton is doing
so far and that we truly could make a difference here in this in this
blockchain environment so how’s the reception on a government front as well
obviously we’ve seen different reception with different governments around the
world so how’s the German government treating the blockchain and adoption
initiative are they are they supportive of the space um how’s your interaction
with them like well it really depends who you talk to
so there’s ministries they think blockchain is the new devil some other
ministries see a big opportunity there now luckily and the German legislature
and they are in general supportive so the that blockchain is a cornerstone of
digitalization was entered into the coalition contract so that’s like basic
the roadmap that the ruling parties have signed off and agreed to and and they’re
sticking through this so just last week for example I was speaking in the German
parliament about new opportunities that blockchain could bring you usually do
use to startups with many ideas but limited proof so the best icebreaker is
to tell them you know what why don’t you become a customer and once they are a
customer themselves once they see that energy is coming into the house that
they are not that they don’t have a blackout and that it could choose the
power plant of their choice that they see that we are in most zip codes the
cheapest energy supplier because we were able to take out middlemen
then dad’s like wow this lock chains in each chain lock thing that might
actually be something really nice so having real customers having a real
business going going on you know and proving it that we that we kept that we
have it in production has always helped us to open the doors to any kind of
discussion that’s awesome and that’s that’s that’s one a key point because
obviously right now there’s so many projects that don’t have anything real
but for you guys so if you’re in Germany right now you can just become a customer
and just order peer-to-peer energy directly from I recommend that because
customers will save 20% up to 20% on the energy bill so this is the one one side
and you know what it’s even very interesting for the producers green
energy producers too because green energy producers can basically get more
revenue by more profit actually by up to 30% by connecting to our energy exchange
so I think it’s a win no I think it is a win-win situation for everyone
and Michael may be wanting to throw in there you said if you live in Germany
you can be customer send us an email with the cold called Michael box mining
with your customer ID and really give you $50 off awesome so $50 off I think
is actually quite important so K customers actually choose between say
agree energies power provider and maybe a traditional maybe not so green one the
can like if they want to be green can they choose a Greenock option well you
know and our energy exchange we only have green energy producers so there’s
no choice between you know a gray one and a green one so you just can’t
obviously we are we are very fast forward thinking companies so and green
thinking companies so you only have the green energy producers or your choice
but something that we talked about is scaling and I definite in a little bit
more detail because obviously aetherium is meeting a scaly scaling problem but
there’s so many skilling solution so what solution have you deployed and how
it’s appropriate for what you’re trying to do so the technology that we use is
basically there to reuse a if you’re incompatible side-chain where
we reuse some of the components but had to develop quite a couple of them you
and then we have an infinite number of number of side side chains that you can
basically picture like like you’re only feel your network no strictly speaking
is not a theorem because we split the data from the hashes of the data and
because when we delete it we wouldn’t want to delete the hashes because then
the blockchain integrity is eliminated and then it would be blocked anymore
so we basically whenever a new data set is created we store a data set in the
distributed database and store the hash on the blockchain
um and whenever we want to delete something we just believe basically the
data set from the distributed database what the hash stays intact
so that’s the secret sauce you can basically say and behind did the
deletion right and we’ve covered this idea of side chains and Bostian simple
actions when we explore ideas like plasma we also have like a lot of
scaling solutions that are out there one of the issues here was how can you build
it when a lot of people haven’t built it yet
you know plasma they’ve been talking about it for 20 years and blocks and
blocks you still haven’t come to fruition what what are you trying what
were there any sacrifices along the way and how does it work yeah that’s true so
many of let’s take plasma for example you’re right and now the way that the
theory wants to scale is and that you one of the biggest problem is the double
spending problem that you spend there’s been Etha for example in one side chain
and not in the other side chain and then when the networks synchronize you want
to make sure that you’ve never spent it twice so the way we solve it is we and
that’s a sacrifice if you want to put it that way
we basically whenever you lock tokens or move tokens from the main chain to a
side chain you have to wait until the main chain confirms that your tokens
have been locked and only again you can use two monitors on the side chain now
plasma tries to basically get increase the scalability but also having data
visible across side chains something which we cannot offer and by
the way it’s also something that is not that much needed we looked at many use
case like also our finance use case that we did the leading bank for it for
example and usually you just need the a to within a domain if you need to export
a check outside of domain yes sure but then you can work with it with exporting
tools and or you synchronize some data to the main chain which is of course
very expensive so it’s our experience was it’s not that much of a sacrifice
actually now the token use right so you have tokens are you there should be a
ESC 20 token right and then you lock that asset up and use it as a fuel for
your own sidechain is that how it works exactly
that’s the utility of the of the top and we obviously need to be market traded
and because whenever the enterprises whenever they need a little token
whenever they used to Lotito they will of course need to buy deleted talking to
pay for to pay for their transactions so I definitely appreciate the business
first approach and I think this is something that we do in lock and need in
this way so I like to thank both Keon and Richard for coming on to this
interview and answer some questions about the little portion as well so
thank you guys so much for coming on this episode Michael thanks so much here
bye-bye

21 comments on “Scalable Blockchain For European Union? Lition Interview

  1. 0:53 Creating an Energy Trading Business on Blockchain
    2:36 Making Blockchain Complaint for EU
    12:24 Blockchain in German Parliament

  2. Great video! Lition is a really top project, I can't believe it isn't shilled like crazy, hopefully the GDPR compliance/scalability will help crypto/blockchain to gain mainstream adoption, which will be better for the whole crypto sphere. They are also doing things right on the business side of things as well as the teh side partnering with SAP who are one of the largest software companies in the world and are similar size to companies such as netflix and pepsi, while also being in involved in German PARLIAMENT!! Not to mention a working dapp which does what projects like electrify asia have been promising to do for ages. Blockchain technology is not dead we are still in early days! Hope to see many other projects like this in the near future.
    Does anyone know if lition is also compliant with US law/law outside europe?

  3. Lition will be one of the biggest ICOs of 2019, first wave was bitcoin and litecoin (currencies), next was smart contract platforms ethereum, neo, eos, tron, the next wave will be scalable platforms with real world applications and dapps (Lition, lto network, zilliqa, holochain, fantom etc)

  4. What's the point of a blockchain if it allows government criminals to alter things? They are literally THE primary criminals that we want protection from. Why on earth would Europeans want to give a government that openly hates us any access to our data or money? As Europeans, we need solutions to get AROUND the regime, not comply with it…

  5. What a great project with real existing customers and supporters like SAP. Thx for asking some very specific questions. 👍

  6. great project, already helping customers to access electricity and so much more. v bullish on this. well done team and thanks Boxmining

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